Spoke Patterns

[stringfellow1946]

Hope your LBS has the correct length spokes because according to Sutherlands you will need
Front radial 281mm
Rear 3 x drive side 291
Rear 2 x drive side 285
Rear NDS Radial 279 BUT I think that might have to be longer due to the dishing of the wheel. (possibly 281mm)

I never ever build rear wheels with Radial on the NDS & avoid Radial front if I can due to the spokes coming off tension when they are in the 12 O'Clock /6 O'clock position (if you get my meaning). Just ping one whilst its on a bike with a rider sat on it & turn the wheel so that the spoke comes off load & listen to the note change.
Thats just my own personal position on it for what its worth re the tension.
AND thats without going into how much material there is in the hubs for the spokes to pull against. I have see quite a few of the older style small flange front hubs i.e. Campag Nuovo/Super Record, Mavic & Shimano crack the flanges when radial laced. The modern factory built wheels that use the type of spoking pattern you want I assume are designed with more material on the flanges to take the extra tension & stress of this type of spoking patten.
When I have had to build a Radial front wheel on the older style SF Hubs its only been for Testers & then mostly 650c wheels from way back when.

 

[FINNEY1973]

And there was me thinking bicycles are simple machines! Thanks Stringfellow, I will take that information to the LBS and I'll have a chat with him about it and come to a common sense solution. Appreciate the time and effort you took to establish the lengths. Still very much up in the air as to how this will turn out, though I do have a 70's S.R front hub that's radially laced so when it comes to the front I'm fairly optimistic on that one. The rear is a different story though, possibly 2x on both sides is the sensible option for a minimalist look, as you and others have suggested that radial NDS may prove the wrong choice on these hubs.
Cheers

 

[hamster]

I had a rear built radial NDS. Radial wheels use lower spoke tensions and so does NDS (due to the dish). Combining the two meant a wheel that never stayed true for long; believe me I went through a couple of respected shops and wheelbuilders to try to fix it. All you are saving weight-wise is the increment on the spoke length - add it all up and it's about the same as one spoke. Whoopy doo. :roll:

I used Campag hubs and Ambrosio Excellence rims - a pretty tough combination.

I'd rather have a reliable wheel than a 15g saving.

 

[Midlife]

Took pics of my monthlery pro mavic rims laced to Dura-ace hubs today (radial front and mixed radial / crossed over 3 rear) but they are on an XD card.... that was pretty stupid as my new laptops don't read the card....

Sorry

Shaun

 

[stringfellow1946]

I had a rear built radial NDS. Radial wheels use lower spoke tensions and so does NDS (due to the dish). Combining the two meant a wheel that never stayed true for long; believe me I went through a couple of respected shops and wheelbuilders to try to fix it. All you are saving weight-wise is the increment on the spoke length - add it all up and it's about the same as one spoke. Whoopy doo. :roll:

I used Campag hubs and Ambrosio Excellence rims - a pretty tough combination.

I'd rather have a reliable wheel than a 15g saving.

Now there speaks the voice of experience from a RIDER. Just listen to what he has to say. The weight saving is SFA, but the grief is un imaginable. No matter how often I tried to tell my riders that it was all a total load of BOLLOX, they still insisted that they wanted all these stupid spooking pattens.
That was until I told them to get some other bugger to do it & then get them to service them every time they went out of true.
SNOW FLAKE was another Crazy 5 minute wonder! WTF was that all about??
Every man & his dog will tell you that they have a set done this way & that they are fine. Yea & the worlds flat!!
Just ask yourself this, will they stand up to real road racing or even every day commuting with the state the UK roads are in right now?
AND remember To FINISH FIRST, FIRST YOU HAVE TO FINISH.

 

[Midlife]

...........and then I drilled another few holes and thought I was Alf Engers

Shaun

 

[stringfellow1946]

...........and then I drilled another few holes and thought I was Alf Engers

Shaun

And as we have seen since it was NOT about weight saving in TT!! it was about aero dynamics.

 

[Midlife]

...... I think I looked good though

Shaun

 

[stringfellow1946]

...... I think I looked good though

Shaun

Then thats all that matters.

 

[FINNEY1973]

Consensus suggests do the proper thing and just get them built as they were intended to be. Still going to see if 2x on both sides is a goer, hopefully it will make a nice wheelset. Cheers for the input, glad I asked! Likely to be the end of January when I get them back so I'll post a pic once i've got them back. Then there's the Galli Paris-Roubaix rims which will need building up, forgot I had the rims until I found them lurking in a box yesterday!