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Serotta Ti-Max
- Thread starter stumpjumper1990
- Start date
might have a go at this 
was wondering if it was designed for a 65mm fork ?
for a 95, it would seem natural ?
but the headtube is really short - well as much as defiant one so is it due to serotta's design ?
as contemporary frames sport often longer headttubes ?no ?
wondering also if it is my size , being 1.74
Serotta's have always very short distance between the seattube collar and toptube so it "lengthen" the toptube compared to, for example Kona's designs ? So a 57 here would probably be smaller in similarsized kona ?
comments appreciated
was wondering if it was designed for a 65mm fork ?
for a 95, it would seem natural ?
but the headtube is really short - well as much as defiant one so is it due to serotta's design ?
as contemporary frames sport often longer headttubes ?no ?
wondering also if it is my size , being 1.74
Serotta's have always very short distance between the seattube collar and toptube so it "lengthen" the toptube compared to, for example Kona's designs ? So a 57 here would probably be smaller in similarsized kona ?
comments appreciated
It does look that way, doesn't it? But in fact arithmetic says that if you have a right angle triangle with the longest side 57 and the shortest side 5, then the next longest will be 56.8, so not significantly different after all.
FWIW, a Kona size 19 with the same seat tube would have c-c seat tube 5cm less, top tube 57.5 not 56.8(?) and head tube 13 not 10. And with modern geometry a 2011 size 19 Kula has a head tube of 15.5. It makes that little 10 look very low indeed, considering it must be aimed at 1.75-1.9 riders.
FWIW, a Kona size 19 with the same seat tube would have c-c seat tube 5cm less, top tube 57.5 not 56.8(?) and head tube 13 not 10. And with modern geometry a 2011 size 19 Kula has a head tube of 15.5. It makes that little 10 look very low indeed, considering it must be aimed at 1.75-1.9 riders.
Anthony":6esm7pjo said:
by right angle you mean a 90° one ? but in that case the triangle has not a 90° angle ?more like 85/80° ? well the impact maybe not that great but more like having an impact of 0.5cm compared to top tube collar distance being 4/5cm longer?
or am I talking nonsense here ?
maybe defiant could tell us what was his headtube length - his frame looks like a 19 ?
Well ok, if you look at the side-on picture, maybe the example I gave was a fraction less than the maximum difference it could make. Maybe the right angle triangle would start from 8-10cm below the top tube rather than 5. But then on a Kona, the head tube would be 3 longer, so that puts it back higher again, maybe to roughly 5-7, so not a lot of difference really.
The quoted horizontal top tube of 59 compares to 23.5 = 59.6 on a Kona, but I think the horizontal tt is so difficult to measure accurately that I never take any notice of it myself.
For me personally, Serottas like Fat Chances fall into a category of bikes that are great bikes but the geometry wouldn't suit me. I like the head tube to be long and the c-c seat tube to be short, so I have never wanted to own a Serotta or Fat Chance (or Ritchey or IF etc), no matter how good they are.
The quoted horizontal top tube of 59 compares to 23.5 = 59.6 on a Kona, but I think the horizontal tt is so difficult to measure accurately that I never take any notice of it myself.
For me personally, Serottas like Fat Chances fall into a category of bikes that are great bikes but the geometry wouldn't suit me. I like the head tube to be long and the c-c seat tube to be short, so I have never wanted to own a Serotta or Fat Chance (or Ritchey or IF etc), no matter how good they are.
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out of curiosity what behaviour would entail a geometry of serotta/fat compares to the one you prefer short seatube and long headtube ?
read once that the eastern US frames were having shorter top tubes compared to the western coast ones actually
are these more nimble with shorter TT ?
read once that the eastern US frames were having shorter top tubes compared to the western coast ones actually
are these more nimble with shorter TT ?
I don’t really know, but I wonder whether differences in the local terrain and the type of riding might explain some of the design variations? There’s no doubt that a shorter top tube and wheelbase will give you more nimble handling. But if the local terrain lends itself to all-day long distance rides over open prairie, you might prefer a top tube with more space. If your local rides are mainly tight and twisty singletrack, you need a lot more skill to go fast on a bike with a long wheelbase.
My own suspicion is that the bikes with short head tubes and flat top tubes were really a hangover from previous road bike design. In the early years, most riders and designers had started on the road and if you look at a classic Stumpjumper say, the shape is just like this TiMax. The fans of those bikes would disagree, but I think that wasn’t the best design for a mountain bike. If you look at a modern Stumpjumper, the designers have abandoned those principles and now their bike has more slope to its top tube than a Kona. Serotta says its geometry is custom, but the example they give on their website no longer shows either a short head tube or a long seat tube.
My own suspicion is that the bikes with short head tubes and flat top tubes were really a hangover from previous road bike design. In the early years, most riders and designers had started on the road and if you look at a classic Stumpjumper say, the shape is just like this TiMax. The fans of those bikes would disagree, but I think that wasn’t the best design for a mountain bike. If you look at a modern Stumpjumper, the designers have abandoned those principles and now their bike has more slope to its top tube than a Kona. Serotta says its geometry is custom, but the example they give on their website no longer shows either a short head tube or a long seat tube.
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