Serotta Ti-Max

[stumpjumper1990]

http://cgi.ebay.de/SEROTTA-TI-MAX-TITAN ... 45f731229e

:shock: :shock:

 

[sancho]

nice welds

 

[bduc61]

might have a go at this

was wondering if it was designed for a 65mm fork ?
for a 95, it would seem natural ?
but the headtube is really short - well as much as defiant one so is it due to serotta's design ?
as contemporary frames sport often longer headttubes ?no ?

wondering also if it is my size , being 1.74
Serotta's have always very short distance between the seattube collar and toptube so it "lengthen" the toptube compared to, for example Kona's designs ? So a 57 here would probably be smaller in similarsized kona ?

comments appreciated

 

[Anthony]

It does look that way, doesn't it? But in fact arithmetic says that if you have a right angle triangle with the longest side 57 and the shortest side 5, then the next longest will be 56.8, so not significantly different after all.

FWIW, a Kona size 19 with the same seat tube would have c-c seat tube 5cm less, top tube 57.5 not 56.8(?) and head tube 13 not 10. And with modern geometry a 2011 size 19 Kula has a head tube of 15.5. It makes that little 10 look very low indeed, considering it must be aimed at 1.75-1.9 riders.

 

[bduc61]

It does look that way, doesn't it? But in fact arithmetic says that if you have a right angle triangle with the longest side 57 and the shortest side 5, then the next longest will be 56.8, so not significantly different after all.

by right angle you mean a 90° one ? but in that case the triangle has not a 90° angle ?more like 85/80° ? well the impact maybe not that great but more like having an impact of 0.5cm compared to top tube collar distance being 4/5cm longer?
or am I talking nonsense here ?
maybe defiant could tell us what was his headtube length - his frame looks like a 19 ?

 

[Anthony]

Well ok, if you look at the side-on picture, maybe the example I gave was a fraction less than the maximum difference it could make. Maybe the right angle triangle would start from 8-10cm below the top tube rather than 5. But then on a Kona, the head tube would be 3 longer, so that puts it back higher again, maybe to roughly 5-7, so not a lot of difference really.

The quoted horizontal top tube of 59 compares to 23.5 = 59.6 on a Kona, but I think the horizontal tt is so difficult to measure accurately that I never take any notice of it myself.

For me personally, Serottas like Fat Chances fall into a category of bikes that are great bikes but the geometry wouldn't suit me. I like the head tube to be long and the c-c seat tube to be short, so I have never wanted to own a Serotta or Fat Chance (or Ritchey or IF etc), no matter how good they are.

 

[bduc61]

out of curiosity what behaviour would entail a geometry of serotta/fat compares to the one you prefer short seatube and long headtube ?

read once that the eastern US frames were having shorter top tubes compared to the western coast ones actually
are these more nimble with shorter TT ?

 

[Anthony]

I don’t really know, but I wonder whether differences in the local terrain and the type of riding might explain some of the design variations? There’s no doubt that a shorter top tube and wheelbase will give you more nimble handling. But if the local terrain lends itself to all-day long distance rides over open prairie, you might prefer a top tube with more space. If your local rides are mainly tight and twisty singletrack, you need a lot more skill to go fast on a bike with a long wheelbase.

My own suspicion is that the bikes with short head tubes and flat top tubes were really a hangover from previous road bike design. In the early years, most riders and designers had started on the road and if you look at a classic Stumpjumper say, the shape is just like this TiMax. The fans of those bikes would disagree, but I think that wasn’t the best design for a mountain bike. If you look at a modern Stumpjumper, the designers have abandoned those principles and now their bike has more slope to its top tube than a Kona. Serotta says its geometry is custom, but the example they give on their website no longer shows either a short head tube or a long seat tube.