Scottish IndepenDENce YES or NO?
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secret_squirrel
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I wouldn't sum it up that way. Stupid miscalculation by the Westminster parties who were their own worst enemies in allowing it in the first place. I suspect they started out all fat and happy and were looking to crush Salmond and the SNP and have failed at that miserably. The result is close enough for the Yes vote to declare a moral victory and get lots of concessions towards devolution.
I expect to see another vote within the next 10 years.
I don't think the No vote had anyone credible to represent them. All 3 current party leaders are/were muppets. Anyone else was tainted by the shambles of the previous 13 years of Labour Governments. Eyebrows and Brown FFS. The only way it could have been any worse is if Blair had joined them.
The only argument the No camp ever made was around the financials - which whether true or not - came across to me very like blackmail, and whilst if I would have had a vote I would have tended towards No - the consistent campaigning highlighting the negatives of leaving instead of the positives of staying would have got my back up so much I would have been tempted towards Yes - just out of sheer bloodymindedness.
suburbanreuben
Old School Grand Master
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'Scuse me?
I think the three Party leaders have made promises they can't keep. It's not up to them. I can't imagine offering the Scots more favours not available to the rest of the Union is going to go down too well in Little England.
Farage must have a boner the size of Big Ben.
Cameron,however, has shown once again that he needs to grow some...
NeilM":2qf52dkv said:
'Scuse me?
I think the three Party leaders have made promises they can't keep. It's not up to them. I can't imagine offering the Scots more favours not available to the rest of the Union is going to go down too well in Little England.
Farage must have a boner the size of Big Ben.
Cameron,however, has shown once again that he needs to grow some...
sparkiegaz
Senior Retro Guru
Looks like this Scottish thing may have done us all a favour both sides of boarder more powers for rest of England, got be good that power is shifted around locally not everything done by eaton boys in Westminster .. Hey???
secret_squirrel":123uu3cz said:
I think it's an excellent summary (with the typo corrected.)
Quite. I bet the No vote would have been even greater had the likes of Blair (who did stick his oar in, by the way) and Cameron stayed quiet at home. And yet... we still voted against the pie in the sky pipedreams of the aggressive "Yes" campaigners. Why? Because most of us have the perceptiveness to understand that what was being claimed and promised was exactly that; we also understand that we have a pretty decent, stable country in a time of major instability on a global scale and only a brainless fool would think it wise to throw away hundreds of years of stability.
This is a spectacularly stupid argument which was regurgitated constantly over the past few weeks. By the same reasoning it'd be blackmail to tell a blind man he'd better stay where he is rather than walking straight into an open manhole.
I am very relieved this morning (particularly as I actually had a very realistic nightmare that the result went the other way!), but slightly apprehensive as to how things are going to be made worse for us once Salmond and Cameron start messing with things that ought to be left alone.
Now, what's the earliest we can have Salmond and Sturgeon executed for treason as they very well deserve?
M-Power
Old School Grand Master
ajm":18ono0ty said:
Bang on. As a global PR exercise for brand Scotland, this has been unprecedented. Thankfully, the majority who voted NO appreciate the bigger picture. All people and nationalities are inter dependant and increasingly so, whether we like it or not. Its a Global village. Corporate Agglomeration is already happening in Western developed countries on a massive scale. Islamic Fundamentalism is changing whole continents like wildfire eg Africa. Mass migration of desperate people away from conflict, war and pestilence ( which is no respecter of borders) are bigger issues than a nationalist agenda. How would the English be perceived globally if we had shown such Nationalistic obsession ?
I'm half Celtic and proud of it. We all love Scotland and its proud people and their caring sharing ethos and we appreciate they don't like much of our politics. The right decision was made and women allowed into the R & A
Can't wait for my next trip north of Hadrians Wall. 
velomaniac
MacRetro Rider
Change was coming one way or the other, so if Yes or No supporter, best try to engage positively I reckon.
As for post vote inflammatory statements, chill. No ones a brainless fool and no traitors need strung up.
Lets go forward United in the Kingdom !
As for post vote inflammatory statements, chill. No ones a brainless fool and no traitors need strung up.
Lets go forward United in the Kingdom !
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Velo - You're right, in my annoyance I was less restrained than I should have been (though Alex Salmond is certainly a traitor by my judgement) I share your sentiment, let's get on with things... thing is, most of us have had that sentiment from the beginning, it's not new to us (and it's a very Scottish sentiment IMO.) I am though genuinely angry that these needless divisions were created when no good was ever going to come of them. The SNP need to stop and for once seriously consider the damage they've already done to our country; the jobs they've destroyed, the investment they've prevented and the instability they've created for individuals and businesses in the whole of the UK. This isn't Hollywood's Braveheart or some kind of board game, this is Scotland as one part of the UK in 2014 - we will never solve any problems by putting up new barriers between us and our fellow countrymen.
I am also genuinely sorry for those I've heard on the radio who are devastated that their vision of some socialist utopia to come has gone up in smoke - the truth is that it was always smoke and mirrors, the SNP were never capable of producing tens of thousands of decent jobs out of a hat despite what the propaganda suggested. There are plenty in many parts of England who are just as desperate - there is no magic bullet which is going to fix all that I'm afraid.
Velo - You're right, in my annoyance I was less restrained than I should have been (though Alex Salmond is certainly a traitor by my judgement) I share your sentiment, let's get on with things... thing is, most of us have had that sentiment from the beginning, it's not new to us (and it's a very Scottish sentiment IMO.) I am though genuinely angry that these needless divisions were created when no good was ever going to come of them. The SNP need to stop and for once seriously consider the damage they've already done to our country; the jobs they've destroyed, the investment they've prevented and the instability they've created for individuals and businesses in the whole of the UK. This isn't Hollywood's Braveheart or some kind of board game, this is Scotland as one part of the UK in 2014 - we will never solve any problems by putting up new barriers between us and our fellow countrymen.
I am also genuinely sorry for those I've heard on the radio who are devastated that their vision of some socialist utopia to come has gone up in smoke - the truth is that it was always smoke and mirrors, the SNP were never capable of producing tens of thousands of decent jobs out of a hat despite what the propaganda suggested. There are plenty in many parts of England who are just as desperate - there is no magic bullet which is going to fix all that I'm afraid.
highlandsflyer
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Steve Marriott is my favourite singer.
Well, that was mighty close!
I was an advocate of devo-max before it was disallowed, so am not overly concerned at this outcome yet.
Anyone suggesting it was a waste of time may as well consider the expensive and divisive general elections at Westminster of late to be similar, after all we are voting in parties barely a hair's breadth apart politically, knocking the important issues like the NHS from pillar to post and doing not much for the electorate.
What we have here is a sea change in political engagement in Scotland, and I am sure we will see the effect trickle down to other areas of the Union.
For those who think this confirms Scotland was happy with the status quo, don't be daft!
Depending on what happens in Westminster and the EU situation over the next few years, this may be only the first of a series of campaigns for further devolution.
In future, given what has been learned, the next referendum may be more focussed on a particular issue.
Well done to everyone involved in what has been a generally peaceful debate and extremely enjoyable and inclusive campaign.
Delighted to spread a little more democracy over all the nations in the Union.
Quite interestingly the poll on this thread was not too far from reality!
There's a hand. my trusty friend,
Give me a hand of yours..
Steve Marriott is my favourite singer.
Well, that was mighty close!
I was an advocate of devo-max before it was disallowed, so am not overly concerned at this outcome yet.
Anyone suggesting it was a waste of time may as well consider the expensive and divisive general elections at Westminster of late to be similar, after all we are voting in parties barely a hair's breadth apart politically, knocking the important issues like the NHS from pillar to post and doing not much for the electorate.
What we have here is a sea change in political engagement in Scotland, and I am sure we will see the effect trickle down to other areas of the Union.
For those who think this confirms Scotland was happy with the status quo, don't be daft!
Depending on what happens in Westminster and the EU situation over the next few years, this may be only the first of a series of campaigns for further devolution.
In future, given what has been learned, the next referendum may be more focussed on a particular issue.
Well done to everyone involved in what has been a generally peaceful debate and extremely enjoyable and inclusive campaign.
Delighted to spread a little more democracy over all the nations in the Union.
Quite interestingly the poll on this thread was not too far from reality!
There's a hand. my trusty friend,
Give me a hand of yours..
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Darn, now us Flemish have to look for another excuse to get rid if the Walloons. :evil:
Darn, now us Flemish have to look for another excuse to get rid if the Walloons. :evil:
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