Schumacher May Win A Race Or Two This Year...

[Neil]

Pretty sure that if Ross Brawn did'nt run the team Mr. Shoemaker would still be retired and the Mercedes German thing.

He had a lot to play in the return of Schumacher, trying to relive the glory days of the Benetton, Ferrari era when they were at theyre best (including cheating also).

I'm far from convinced it's purely Brawn's influence. To me, Brawn has always seemed very savvy and quite pragmatic.

Two points:-

1. Ferrari REALLY wanted Schumacher to return to them to race, whilst Massa was injured
2. It's long been legend that Mercedes really wanted to have Schumacher race for them in F1

In fairness, I think he's largely driving to the potential of the car.

He was driving to the ability of the Ferrari in 1996 and won a race in a dog of a car, so why cant he do it now?

The Ferrari of that era wasn't a total dog - Berger and Alesi had some strong races with Ferrari before Schumacher moved there. I remember a race in particular where they were running 1 and 2, and both lost the race, because the camera fell off the leading car, and broke the suspension of the following car, and the trailing wires from the leading car, wrapped around something and caused it to burn / overheat some component.

Ferrari, in those days, weren't totally bereft of performance, but what did seem to happen when Schumacher and his "team" that he put in place, was a very much more consistent, professional and focused team.

I think in recent times, he's been at least on par with Rosberg - perhaps slightly better - and he's nearly 20 years older.

How?? He's been beat in the previous 2 seasons by him and hasnt outshone him at any point! Should be alot faster with the experience and knolweldge of the past years of racing!

Also you have to add into the mix, that Schumacher is the best part of 20 years older than Rosberg, and had been retired from F1 racing for some years.

And I think it bears note, Schumacher does not appear to be at the same zenith of his F1 driving abilities as he was in his prime.

All the same, I think in recent times, he's been largely on the same page as his young, charging team-mate (yes, yes, I get it, some people think he should have walked on water, straight back into F1 and wiped the floor with Rosberg).

And as soon as the car has shown any promise in terms of performance, what do we see? Schumacher in Rosberg's shadow, performance wise?

I have to say - and this is no slight on Rosberg, but if the Mercedes is up to it, this year, I'd expect it to be Schumacher putting it on the podium, or grabbing a sneaky / cheeky win.

When Rosberg has got 7 world championships under his belt, retired, and returned and still racing at the age of 43, and still being able to compete with a young, charging, fast driver of 26, then Rosberg will have a decent claim to fame, too.

Means nothing when your racing mid field, people expect him to be at the front winning because of it so when he under performs its always a disappointment for his fans, race team and media!

I dispute it means nothing - how many other drivers from his era, at this age, would you expect to be able to still compete at that level - especially given the gap when he retired, and the rapid change in how the cars and tyres have evolved.

He's enjoying it, I expect many fans are enjoying him being there, and the team wouldn't be doing it unless there was something in it for them.

Few people, if ever, get to rest on their laurels and previous reputation in F1. If he wasn't value for money, he wouldn't still be in a drive - they wouldn't just allow it out of respect and loyalty.

So because he's enjoying it its ok to be not as quick as the others?!?!?!!

I think in recent times he's been performing around the same level as Rosberg - sometimes quicker, sometimes Rosberg is quicker.

He's started this season strongly on pace.

As to whether it's OK - I'd say, ask his boss(es).

Have mediocre races which dont show him or the the team in a good light and constantly blame the car when its clearly performing better in the hands of a young Rosberg who hasnt won 7 championships ; ) Sounds like great value for money.

I haven't really seen a whining, complaining Schumacher since his return - he's always seemed more relaxed, more open, and more at home - and in terms of the capabilities of the car, called it as he's seen it.

As things have stood, the car has been mediocre, and Rosberg has hardly done much more with it. So if Rosberg has finished ahead of him in the WC - who cares? Who's really fighting over the lower rankings in the driver's world championship?

Personally i cant see why he came back, he's consistantly being beat in Qualifying and the race by other younger drivers, Hamilton, Vettel, Button, Webber, Rosberg, Alonso, Massa, Di Resta etc, and hasnt been within a sniff of a pole or win! All his experience hasnt developed the car into anything worthy of noting and simply just seems to have lost his edge that he used to possess!! Wether he regains it or not is another matter, but Mercedes cant wait much longer for him to try and gather it back, they need results, wins, pole positions and theyre not getting them from the 7 times champion as his results show!!

They're not getting them from any other driver, either.

Even now - if in his 40s, his edge is somewhat blunted, and he's merely a peer, on roughly the same level as the rest of the drivers - that's no mean feat - he's nearly 20 years older than many.

As to the why he came back - to a certain degree I see your point - when he first came back, I wondered - I didn't get it, it just seemed to be too much to lose, not enough to gain. I thought he'd quit shortly afterwards (witness Mansell's return to F1).

 

[Neil G]

F1 is lets face it rather s**t compared to the good old days of the early 90s so it's good to see an old hand like Schumacher up there and still racing.

I''ve always been a fan since he arrived on the scene and took the Benetton to new heights, the Ferrari days were a little tedious but what an achievement to have racked up so many titles.

He's a lot older than some of them so what he is doing now is pretty ballsy, will hot heads like Hamilton be in a car at 40...I think not.

 

[DHB]

]
Also you have to add into the mix, that Schumacher is the best part of 20 years older than Rosberg, and had been retired from F1 racing for some years.

And I think it bears note, Schumacher does not appear to be at the same zenith of his F1 driving abilities as he was in his prime.

I dispute it means nothing - how many other drivers from his era, at this age, would you expect to be able to still compete at that level - especially given the gap when he retired, and the rapid change in how the cars and tyres have evolved.

Even now - if in his 40s, his edge is somewhat blunted, and he's merely a peer, on roughly the same level as the rest of the drivers - that's no mean feat - he's nearly 20 years older than many.
.

So all in, because he's 20 years older that makes it acceptable to drive to a midfield pace and not win anything, get beat by your younger teammate and still rest on your former career to help you get by in the mean time until you find the pace that you want! Schumacher knew all this before he came back. He was older, alot more of the field are driving at an incredible pace and now he has lost some of his spark.

Every driver wants to beat there team mate throughout the year to get above them in the constructors championship its a well known fact. Wether it be 1 point or 25 points its still finishing above. So it must be killing him knowing that he cant even do that let alone challenge the other quicker drivers in the filed!

 

[Neil]

Also you have to add into the mix, that Schumacher is the best part of 20 years older than Rosberg, and had been retired from F1 racing for some years.

And I think it bears note, Schumacher does not appear to be at the same zenith of his F1 driving abilities as he was in his prime.

I dispute it means nothing - how many other drivers from his era, at this age, would you expect to be able to still compete at that level - especially given the gap when he retired, and the rapid change in how the cars and tyres have evolved.

Even now - if in his 40s, his edge is somewhat blunted, and he's merely a peer, on roughly the same level as the rest of the drivers - that's no mean feat - he's nearly 20 years older than many.

So all in, because he's 20 years older that makes it acceptable to drive to a midfield pace and not win anything, get beat by your younger teammate and still rest on your former career to help you get by in the mean time until you find the pace that you want!

Well from a performance perspective, acceptable will be defined by Schumacher, and those that employ him.

Schumacher knew all this before he came back. He was older, alot more of the field are driving at an incredible pace and now he has lost some of his spark.

I suspect neither him, nor those who employed him to come back, would know how well he'd stack up, until he did actually come back.

Every driver wants to beat there team mate throughout the year to get above them in the constructors championship its a well known fact.

Well as a generalism, I wouldn't argue - but most drivers are still looking to make a name for themselves, and actually achieve something.

I'm not saying he's not bothered about it - he probably is - but you also have to bear in mind, he's got a whole lot less to prove than drivers who are still trying to make a name for themselves.

Wether it be 1 point or 25 points its still finishing above. So it must be killing him knowing that he cant even do that let alone challenge the other quicker drivers in the filed!

Thing is, though, with a sniff of performance, he can challenge.

All the same, whilst I get the thrust of your argument, it is just your opinion. Now I won't deny, I did have certain expectations about how he'd perform when he returned, and in the main, I'd accept he's not set the world on fire. And for the 1st, and perhaps the first half of his 2nd season with Mercedes, I'd agree, Rosberg had him largely bested. I just think from about half-way through last season, onwards, he's much on the same level as Rosberg.

Last season, Jenson Button convincingly bested Lewis Hamilton, in the driver's championship - does that make him comprehensively superior as a driver and competitor? The gap was closer with Schumacher and Rosberg - Schumacher was one place behind with 13 points fewer.

 

[FMJ]

So all in, because he's 20 years older that makes it acceptable to drive to a midfield pace and not win anything, get beat by your younger teammate and still rest on your former career to help you get by in the mean time until you find the pace that you want!

Mercedes wants him in their car. Emphasis on their. The end.

 

[highlandsflyer]

I reckon Schumi at 60 would best one or two of the drivers out there right now.

Perhaps sending letters of complaint to the Mercedes team and the FIA would be more effective than carrying on a bun fight here.

Maybe you could suggest they instigate an age limit for drivers?

How about a talent limit?

On second thoughts...

 

[DHB]

All the same, whilst I get the thrust of your argument, it is just your opinion.

Exactly i have my opinion and you yours, will never be a straight cut answer!

We'll just have to agree to disagree!

Perhaps sending letters of complaint to the Mercedes team and the FIA would be more effective than carrying on a bun fight here.

Maybe you could suggest they instigate an age limit for drivers?

How about a talent limit?

On second thoughts...

You do realise this is a forum for having a general chat and not a Q&A session. No one has been hurt, no one has been offended, so where's the harm!! Just general banter between people!!

 

[highlandsflyer]

You do realise this is a forum for having a general chat and not a Q&A session. No one has been hurt, no one has been offended, so where's the harm!! Just general banter between people!!

Wondering what makes you think you need to explain that to me.

There only seems to be one person taking their view so seriously.

Opinions are like assholes. Everyone's an asshole.

 

[highlandsflyer]

he's consistantly being beat in Qualifying and the race by other younger drivers, Hamilton, Vettel, Button, Webber, Rosberg, Alonso, Massa, Di Resta etc, and hasnt been within a sniff of a pole or win! All his experience hasnt developed the car into anything worthy of noting and simply just seems to have lost his edge that he used to possess!! Wether he regains it or not is another matter, but Mercedes cant wait much longer for him to try and gather it back, they need results, wins, pole positions and theyre not getting them from the 7 times champion as his results show!!

Just how long does it take you to sniff? I am guessing not less than a fifth of a second.

 

[DHB]

he's consistantly being beat in Qualifying and the race by other younger drivers, Hamilton, Vettel, Button, Webber, Rosberg, Alonso, Massa, Di Resta etc, and hasnt been within a sniff of a pole or win! All his experience hasnt developed the car into anything worthy of noting and simply just seems to have lost his edge that he used to possess!! Wether he regains it or not is another matter, but Mercedes cant wait much longer for him to try and gather it back, they need results, wins, pole positions and theyre not getting them from the 7 times champion as his results show!!

Just how long does it take you to sniff? I am guessing not less than a fifth of a second.

Opinions are like assholes. Everyone's an asshole.