SAAB

[suburbanreuben]

Re:

My niece is going to learn to drive in it, around the woods and fields.
Cats will probably also live in it.

 

[NeilM]

Re:

I like estate cars and have them whenever the firm allows.

! had a SAAB 95 for a couple of years on a lease. I got 100,000 reliable miles out of it with no issues. Don't get it serviced at a SAAB dealer though, way too expensive.

I replaced the SAAB with an ex demo Peugeot 306 SW, which actually had more room in the back. Again 105,000 totally reliable miles and still looked immaculate when I handed it back to the company.

Both were manual and diesel and I got better fuel consumption from the Peugeot.

 

[legrandefromage]

As I can only speak about the diesels 'Modern' SAAB is, as you surely must know, a bastard child of GM and Fiat (diesel)

If you find a nice diesel that suits your needs I would go for pre DPF models - block the EGR as soon as you can. The EGR is there to reduce NOx but it is a crude method. It reduces the combustion temps and introduces much more carbon deposits, acids etc which combine to make a sticky substance that buggers the EGR up and prematurely wears the engine.

The 8v diesels are FIAT and are tough, but everything attached to them is not. 16v diesels have swirl flaps that gum up and are expensive to fix although there is a workaround. Depending on mileage and driving type, lots of sensors can fail leading to frustrating moments when pulling away in 'limp mode'. Diagnostic readers cannot always specify the problem, forums are OK but theres a lot of ill informed chaff to sift through.

Electronics and fiddly bits - there are a lot which can mean lots of niggles.

And cambelt changes must be adhered to - 60k or 5 years (from memory).

If Petrol, who gives a funk - they're great!

 

[hamster]

The GM auto boxes were not up to the job on 9000s and 9-5s and tended to need a rebuild sometime between 70,000 and 100,000 miles. The Saab petrol engines were bombproof mechanically. I know of one 9000 with 750k on the clock.
The Saab 2.2 (GM-derived) diesel has problems, my dealer always kept the top-end rebuild kit in stock.
Petrol DI packs fail without warning and there is no roadside fix. I got through two in 60,000 miles.

Engines are generally strong, some bodywork is designed for cheap assembly not maintenance. Changing the foglamp bulbs on my 9000 involved removing the front wheels, undertray and wheel arch liners. :roll:

Overall in 8 years ownership (2002-2010) and from 50k to 110k miles my 9000 2.3Turbo (200hp):
a) Broke down 3 times: 2x DI pack failures plus a v-belt idler bearing.
b) The airbag system failed and was discovered to be wired incorrectly left/right seats at manufacture.
c) The turbo wastegate stuck and had to be released.
d) The manual box was getting a little crunchy and slow on 3rd gear
e) Trim had a few rattles

I would describe the build quality as similar to a posh Vauxhall but definitely not in the league of the Germans.

 

[Neil]

The GM auto boxes were not up to the job on 9000s and 9-5s and tended to need a rebuild sometime between 70,000 and 100,000 miles.

wiki says the 9-5 used Aisin Warner 4 and 5 speed autos - dunno about the 9000, but I know Vauxhall and Toyota (I think) and probably some others used Aisin Warner boxes too, from around that era.

I did a good few 100 thousand miles with the 4 speed AW (AW50-42LE) and with Volvo software, at least, they were bombproof. I personally drove around 200k miles in a Volvo S70 with that box in, and it had about 80k on the clock when I bought it. The auto was brilliant, no slippage, bangs, thumps or any issues in the time I owned and heavily used it. But then I did follow 50k intervals for ATF changes.

The 5 speed Aisin Warner box (that wiki says was used in later 9-5s) was also used by Volvo and Vauxhall, and probably other makes, and in theory sounded better, but my experience of it, was that it was more fragile, and blighted by some poor software decisions, that had consequences for serviceability. Volvo recognised the 4 speed box was strong, in that it tended to be the one favoured for the higher powered Volvo 70 series (classic).

Thing is, though, I suspect software and service schedules (most marques discouraged any servicing or ATF changes in modern-ish autos) are what undermines reliability of modern, electronically controlled transmissions. I've known transmissions be pretty much bulletproof when used / installed on one particular make and model, yet in another (with persumably subtly different software) reputed to be a bit fragile.

 

[hamster]

I suspect the other issue is the spec of the 'box: using a box specced up for a 2 litre petrol engine on a 2.3 one with a big turbo is also asking for trouble with a heavy torque loading. GM-Saab may well have bought a downspec box.
Considering that the rest of the facelifted 9000 was somewhat meanly engineered compared to the original 900 I wouldn't be at all surprised.

No traction control on a 200bhp front wheel drive car was a case in point. If rugby-footed I could wheelspin it at 50mph on a wet concrete road. Not clever.

 

[Neil]

I suspect the other issue is the spec of the 'box: using a box specced up for a 2 litre petrol engine on a 2.3 one with a big turbo is also asking for trouble with a heavy torque loading. GM-Saab may well have bought a downspec box.
Considering that the rest of the facelifted 9000 was somewhat meanly engineered compared to the original 900 I wouldn't be at all surprised.

No traction control on a 200bhp front wheel drive car was a case in point. If rugby-footed I could wheelspin it at 50mph on a wet concrete road. Not clever.

Volvo spec'd what appears to be the same box on a series of cars that were all inline 5s, smallest engine was a 2 litre, but were happy to spec the 4 speed (AW50-42LE) on T5s, as well as the R model.

I suspect the transmission was probably capable of the grunt thrown at it, whether implementation (software, cooling...) and / or service / maintenance was, though, is another matter.

If nothing else, the 4 speed Aisin box was NOT inherently fragile, and truth be told, the 5 speed box wasn't, really, but other factors came to play in undermining that.

 

[suburbanreuben]

Re:

That's Saab offf the list then. I can't live with that level of ill behaviour, especially as the car being replaced has needed only one wheel bearing in ten years and 100,000 miles. And that gave me six months of grumbling to fix it.
BMW- any good?

 

[highlandsflyer]

BMW plus snow equals very bad, unless you pay a lot of money for one equipped with the pseudo 4x4 gubbins, but even then a step down in capability from your Subaru.

I have driven a Forester through over a foot of snow with nae bother at all.

Reckon we are in for a hard winter too.

 

[legrandefromage]

I drove my B5 Passat through lots of snow and overtook a 5 series clanking along on snowchains

At at least 17mph...