Paris. Not Good News.

[greencat]

Re: Re:

If the prognostications in the Book of Revelations and the bible as a whole have any merit/validity, then these (recent times) are only the beginning of the world's coming troubles.

Ater the Charlie Hebdo incident, France has done nothing but to kow-tow to the whims and desires of the radical sector's (out of which the extremists emerge) interests, while continuiing to bend over backwards to observe the world's current political correctness mania (a couple prior posts on this thread speak to that phenomenon).

France very much takes a hard line with extremism, and deals very fairly on the whole with anyone regardless of their origin. They are not weak as a result, they are extremely strong.

The world is not in the grips of any kind of mania, except that put forward by extremists of the terrorist nature and the tinfoil hat wearers tending to the right wing.

Just to say, that I did not post that which is attributed to me in the post above - and nor do I agree with any of it. Poss user error on the part of highlandsflyer?

 

[ibbz]

Re: Re:

The long term solution to these types of outrage seems clear to me. The upper ranks within Islam need to reach out further and educate. No one should be subject to the radicalisation that results in actions like last night's. They are being sold a lie; and as long as they believe attacking innocent people will guarantee them heaven, this will keep happening.

It is a death cult that needs to be stamped out. Only Islam itself can reach out to these people and make it clear how misguided they are.

They've already been doing that for years. If you've not noticed you've not bothered to look.

Islam is a religion, it is there to be used and manipulated by those that claim to follow its principles and pillars.
It cannot reach out in itself. It's not a sentient being.
Muslims do and have done but there are so many schisms within the religion that each sect is at the others throats.
Just look at the car bomb and auicide bombing in Beirut in a Hezbullah area which killed scores of Muslims. The Daesh (ISIS) consider ALL Muslims who disagree with them as heretics apostates and as targets.
There seems to be a sudden outrage when a western European city gets hit by these insane murderers - how many suicide bombs shootings and murders have these same Devils arranged and executed in Iran? Iraq? Syria? Pakistan? Nigeria? Yemen? Lebanon? And if course Russia Etc in the last month? I didn't see any full page spreads in papers then and nor did I notice any outrage here.

The problem is Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE and Kuwait and Turkey- these Gulf scum and turkey control command and direct and remain unscathed as 'allies' and friends and NATO members while we demonise Russia demand regime change supporting "moderates" in Syria and Libya creating failed states and more recruits for Daesh.

Thank Christ we didn't go into Syria like the French have. That Hollande is a knob.

Read 'the Jihadis Return' by Patrick Cockburn. And keep abreast of his and Robert Fisk's articles plus those of Seymour Hersch if you want to know what's what .

 

[ibbz]

Islam is a hierarchical 'organisation', and can indeed reach out to the numerous sub groups. Stating Islam is not a sentient being is bizarre. A little like pointing out our government is not a sentient being.

We are all grown ups here, so I presume most of us know we are talking about an organisation made up of sentient beings. However loosely formed or attached. Thus there is collective sentience. The question is whether there is any reasoning.

They've already been doing that for years. If you've not noticed you've not bothered to look.

Clearly they have not done so effectively. Given the events, and the rise of Daesh. it would be hard to argue any other case logically. I am sure that won't inhibit you though.

No it is NOT such a structure.
You do not understand the religion and it's organisation. There is NO central figure or 'Pope' or Archbishop. Each Mullah and Sheilh is an authority in itself within Sunni Islam. Each Mosque is an authority and not everyone who attends gives a shit about the guy on the pulpit an what he says.
Only Shia Islam has such an authority and Shias aren't going around the world planting bombs and murdering - they're the ones suffering at the hands of the Wahabi sub sect within Sunni Islam (whose sub sect of a sub sect is Isis) which is funded by Saudi and Qatar.
The ONLY people who can do any reaching out as you put it are our allies in Saudi Qatar and Turkey and this can only be done by us politically.
Ceasing all fool intervention in the Middle East of course helps as will solving Palestine Israel conflict and cutting down on immigration.

 

[Bats]

Clearly they have not done so effectively. Given the events, and the rise of Daesh. it would be hard to argue any other case logically. I am sure that won't inhibit you though.

They've done so to the fullest extent possible, and it's been effective as possible. Would you care to hold the church of england to the same standards? Because plenty of pale faced protestants have shot and blown up tanned muslim civilians - and Liz Windsor hasn't said a word.

Honestly, the approach the various muslim communities have taken is far more effective than anything you've come up with. Your answer to everything is to send GCSE failures with L85s half way around the world, with no coherent, tangible enemy force, and with no clear plan.

No matter how much you come out with jingoist "our brave boys" rubbish it won't change a simple fact: bullets don't kill ideas.

 

[ibbz]

Anyway let's hope things get better.
And the last thing we want is May and Caneron taking away our civil liberties and freedom using terrorism as an excuse.

 

[Bats]

They've already done that. The secret trials stuff went through ages ago.

 

[Ollie]

Terrible news, .

 

[dyna-ti]

Expect it again, and again and more importantly, expect it here.


Not all Muslims are terrorists, as there are they, fighting and dying right now in the fight against fundamental ideologies.
However.
So far all terrorist attacks have been committed by Muslims.

We cannot sort this out only they can.
For them to do so, they must wholly accept the British way of life. Which means informing on your fellow Muslim should he be interested in going against the grain.
Furthermore they must also speak out in public in condemnation about illegal practices they are aware of.
Start forcing their children to live within the law.

 

[ultrazenith]

The events in Paris were truly horrific, and my condolences go out to the people of Paris and all those affected - as they also do to all those in the middle east and around the world whose lives have are taken or turned upside-down by terrorism.

 

[ibbz]

Expect it again, and again and more importantly, expect it here.


Not all Muslims are terrorists, as there are they, fighting and dying right now in the fight against fundamental ideologies.
However.
So far all terrorist attacks have been committed by Muslims.

We cannot sort this out only they can.
For them to do so, they must wholly accept the British way of life. Which means informing on your fellow Muslim should he be interested in going against the grain.
Furthermore they must also speak out in public in condemnation about illegal practices they are aware of.
Start forcing their children to live within the law.

I am not being rude nor argumentative so please accept this as just a discussion on this.
There seems to be a lot of confusion and misinformation going around, thanks to hysteria, knee jerk reactions and demagoguery by the Media and especially by Obama, Hollande, Cameron and his Neo Conservative, New Labour friends and allies.

A mistake there, no, not all terrorist attacks have been committed by Muslims "so far". This is false and not correct.
There are scores of Terrorist groups throughout the world, and many commit acts of terrorism daily.
There are and have been wide ranging groups throughout Central and South America, East, South East and South Asia, throughout Africa and of course here in the British Isles with the many IRA groups and some Loyalist ones prominent.

Secondly, what do you mean by "British way of life"? The British way of life is multi faceted f looked at under a modern perspective, but traditionally and in my own opinion the British Way is enshrined in the Bill of Rights, the Petition of Rights and the Magna Carta and such things are ancient and protect our liberty, combined with the rule of law is what I class as the British way of life.

Does your way of life involve mass surveillance? Spying, snooping and informing? Creating suspicion and fear? hatred? If so then the Terrorists have won and you're now living under terror and Their ways by abandoning all enshrined in the sacrosanct documents I mentioned.

It's easy to beat the drum of war and revenge without thinking and being wise and clever in dealing with this.
Read the following excellent article in yesterday's Mail on Sunday by Peter Hitchens:
http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/ ... think.html

Why was France in particular attacked ? And why should we expect it again and again and expect it here?

France is embroiled in a bombing campaign in Syria. Eye witness accounts from the murders in Paris state that this is what the attackers said, they mentioned Syria and this revenge for France bombing Syria.

It seems the French, British and Americans haven't read Mary Shelly's Frankenstein, George Galloway when he was an MP (like him or loathe him the man is intelligent and well read) when he asked Cameron if he has read Frankenstein and read it to the end?

Cameron and Hollande made some massive, unforgiveable foreign policy blunders in the Middle East in the last few years.

Firstly we had the intervention in Libya - egged on by Liberal interventionists and Neo Cons they attacked and deposed Gaddaffi and replaced a horrible yet stable and secure country with a failed anarchic State and a terrorist Al Qaeda breeding ground without Law, order or Liberty.
And they did this in collaboration with Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the other Gulf Despotisms who nurture, breed and have created Al Qaeda and Salafism Wahabism and have been exporting these 5th Columns and sub sects throughout the world with their Petro Dollars.

They then in collaboration with Saudi and Qatar and Erdogan in Turkey created hostility and so called protests against the Government in Syria - a country which was stable, relatively tolerant and Secular - where the people were educated and relatively happy - sure they were living under fear of Secret Police and a under a Despotism - but their personal freedoms, economic wellbeing and the rule of law were very secure - there were noproblems internally with terrorism, religious fundamentalism or murder - even street crime and such were very low.
For various foolish reasons Hollande and Cameron with a little help from Obama allied with Qatar Saudi and Turkey decided to arm the protesters, to create - hence the Frankenstein analogy; various factions such as the Free Syrian Army, the Al Nusra Brigades, Ansar Al Sham and of course ISIL - these are ALL of shoots of Al Qaeda (remember them?) armed and hostile, violent and driven by a Salafist Al Qaeda ideology where Shia Mjslims, other Sunni branches and other sects were heretics and to be exterminated - and where Christians and other 'people of the Book' were to be ruled over.
Where is ISIL and Al Nusra and the others weapons, funding, organisation etc coming from? It's Saudi and Qatar with Turkey - allies and NATO members.
These groups have bene nurtured and created and now all of a sudden some are out of control and are turning on their creators. They wont turn on the Saudis or Qataris nor Turkey (sure there was a violent terrorist bomb in Turkey recently - targeting the Kurds!)

The only people effectively fighting the ISIL and associated Al Qaeda of shoots are the Syrian Army and the Shiite Militias in Iraq allied with the Hezbullah Militia and assisted by Iran and Russia. We also have the Kurdish forces which are effective and assisted by the USA but the Turks are fighting these SAME Kurds!

A few years back, thank God Milliband and the Labour Party and Tory rebels defeated the governments plan to bomb President Assad's army in Syria - this would've elft a vacuum which would be filled by Al Qaeda. Apparently Assad used Chemical weapons on 'his own people'. Not only was this false and a lie, on the contrary the Chemical weapons were used by our creations and they came from Libya through Turkey.
read this excellent informed article by the Great Seymour Hersch:
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n08/seymour-m- ... e-rat-line

And now while the French attack, we are not attacking and nor should we attack - instead we need to address the real issues here, the roles of Saudi, Turkey and Qatar.
We need to assist Russia and Syria in combating ISIL and AL Qaeda spin offs in Syria with intelligence and whichever way to destroy ISIL in Syria - the same monster we created.

But alas, this will not happen, as Cameron and his friends will not abandon or focus upon Saudi, Qatar and Turkey and they've an irrational desire to fight or confront Russia and wont accept Assad.

I suggest reading the follwoing excellent articles by Patrick Cockburn - a proper experienced journalist:
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/par ... 35491.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/author/patrick-cockburn

And Robert Fisk's journalism:
http://www.independent.co.uk/author/robert-fisk

And patrick Cockburn's book: The Jihadis Return, isis and the new sunni uprising
http://www.orbooks.com/catalog/jihadis-return/

As for how all of this shit started.
For that we have to look at the Arab Israeli conflics, Palestine and then Iraq.

Iraq was our ally during the Iran Iraq war.
After the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait Iraq became our enemy - but at the same time, the attack by coalition forces on a Muslim (albeit secular and ba'athist) country alarmed and angered many Muslims - this was also an excuse for Saudi and Gulf educated clerics to start peddling their literature throughout the West - Muslims were made to believe that this was an internal matter between Muslim nations and not the place of the West to kill Muslims. in 1990 I had never NEVER seen a Hijab or Beard or jack up trousers or Jesus robes on any person in London.
During the Gulf War I saw them start to be adopted and literature and groups such as Khilafa and Hizb ut Tahrir making their way via Saudi into London and England.

Anyway, 13 years of devastating Sanctions against Iraq which killed a HALF MILLION Iraqi Children didn't go down too well.
Read The Great War against Civilisation and Age of The Warrior by Robert Fisk, and his new book on Syria

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0007 ... 1_6&sr=8-6
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1841 ... 1_1&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1502 ... 1_3&sr=8-3

Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda stated as such as their reasons for targeting the US Embassy in Kenya, the USS Cole and the World Trade Centre.
They didn't wake up one morning and decide to lay waste because 'they hate our way of life' - bullshit peddled by Blair.


So then we have the Iraq War - how many died there? The Afghan War - how about that?
These created ISIL and ISIS and AL Qaeda and all the others - they birthed the groups and ideas, which were then allowed to form into groups we have now becauise of French, british and American meddling and tained alliances with Vile regimes in Saudi, Qatar and Turkey.

So sorry for the long message, but this needed to be said.
There is so much shit being spread in Media and by the same fools who cerated this emss in the first place.
if we had minded our own business from the start and ceased to get involved in regime change and ******* about with peoples in other far away countries none of this shit would've affected us and innocent people wouldm't have been ruthlessly murdered by terrorists scum in paris, London and NYC - in Moscow, on Russian Aeroplanes, in beirut and such