ORANGE P7??

[ringlemike]

What are the differences between C16R and P7 both to look at and the materials used?

 

[Pfennig]

I'm sure someone else can give details, but I believe the P7 is a stronger frames but is a bit heavier.

Both are pretty sweet to ride tho! I currently have a C16r and had a P7 until some thieving git decided to relieve me of it!

 

[dyna-ti]

I think they're identical in geometry except for the tubing used, the P7 had a slightly heavier gauge tubing ,the weight difference is only about 40 grams

 

[orange71]

isn't the P for Prestige (as in Tange)?

 

[OrangeRetro]

The 'P' links it to the prestige as it was kind of the successor to the prestige, alhtough they sold both in 94.

The P7 is made from Orange Series 8 tubing and the C16 is made from Series 7. I would say that they are the same gauge and both double butted but the P7 has fatter tubing, the C16 and clockwork were always quite skinny. The P7 is meant to be a stiffer slightly more hardcore frameset. I could be wrong but this is what I was lead to believe BITD.

They both have the same geometry as far as I am aware.

 

[cherrybomb]

The 'P' links it to the prestige as it was kind of the successor to the prestige, alhtough they sold both in 94.

The P7 is made from Orange Series 8 tubing and the C16 is made from Series 7. I would say that they are the same gauge and both double butted but the P7 has fatter tubing, the C16 and clockwork were always quite skinny. The P7 is meant to be a stiffer slightly more hardcore frameset. I could be wrong but this is what I was lead to believe BITD.

They both have the same geometry as far as I am aware.

That says it all really.

There is little to tell the two frames apart visually but they used different tube sets. (Series 7 & 8 ) I guess the rear triangles are pretty much identical as are the seat tubes, so the difference is most likely in the top and down tubes. Whether this difference is in the diameter, gauge or length of the butts.............I don't know, but the P7 (as with the Prestige) was marketed as the stronger frame and is slightly heavier.

 

[Anthony]

The 'P' links it to the prestige as it was kind of the successor to the prestige, alhtough they sold both in 94.
The P7 is made from Orange Series 8 tubing and the C16 is made from Series 7. I would say that they are the same gauge and both double butted but the P7 has fatter tubing, the C16 and clockwork were always quite skinny. The P7 is meant to be a stiffer slightly more hardcore frameset. I could be wrong but this is what I was lead to believe BITD.
They both have the same geometry as far as I am aware.

That says it all really.
There is little to tell the two frames apart visually but they used different tube sets. (Series 7 & 8 ) I guess the rear triangles are pretty much identical as are the seat tubes, so the difference is most likely in the top and down tubes. Whether this difference is in the diameter, gauge or length of the butts.............I don't know, but the P7 (as with the Prestige) was marketed as the stronger frame and is slightly heavier.

I agree with all this, but I recall that the P7 frame used to sell for £100 more than the C16R/Clockwork. What should we make of that now? Knowing what nice and worthy good guys the Orange lads were, should we think that the P7 tubeset must have been of a higher grade, justifying (at least to some extent) the hierarchy in prices? Or was it just a rip-off, profiteering on a good name? I honestly have no idea, but I'd like to think it was the former.

Certainly the £399 price of the P7 frame put it in competition with frames made out of very high-level tubesets.

 

[cherrybomb]

I'd like to think that the P7 used a higher spec tube set, but it's hard to tell.

Orange started using their own 'series' tube sets in the mid nineties and I've never seen any specifications for them. I guess an email to Orange may provide that information.

The C16 and P7 certainly use the same sized seat tube with 31.8 OD and 29.6 seatpost and visually there is little difference between the frames.

Think I'll email Orange.

 

[OrangeRetro]

I know that the frame decal on my P7 says 'individually micro butted' and the one on my clockwork says 'double butted'... Now what that means is anyones guess.. :|

 

[cherrybomb]

I've emailed Paul at Orange and asked what the spec. of the tubes was.

He's away until Friday, so if I get an answer it might be after Chrimbo now....we'll just have to wait.

Having said that, it sounds like the difference could be in the butting. The P7 being 'taper' butted which would explain the extra cost. Still possibly only the front end though.