Orange. . . . .Formula?????

[NeilM]

Neil, i havent suggested for one minute that these bikes all need to be Museum pieces, on the contrary, i too agree that this would be a great shame.

And i see no reason why any of these bikes cant be ridden, whether the owner refinishes them or not.

As better men than me have Said, the paintwork is merely a veneer...!!!
And the joy of these steel bikes is they can be fixed when broken, as the formula is.

And once it has been fixed, whether repainted or not, i see NO earthly reason why it couldnt or shouldnt be ridden, it takes no skill at all to ride it, and clean it, and treat it with respect.

As you can perhaps tell, Im NO fan of Garage Queens.

No the point i was trying to make, is this.

In the Great scheme of things, i consider our little Islands contribution to the worldwide mountain bike market at this time, almost as a cottage industry.

And due to Market dominance from overseas, whether America or the Far east, the Uk scene was perhaps Overlooked to a degree by many people, and subsequently, the information surrounding the Uk efforts have been scattered, and/or not recorded.

We only have to look around, to see it, i believe you yourself are riding a Roberts at the moment and are still unsure of its Origins/model, we think its a White Spider, but it has clearly been modified by the removal of the brake hanger and the addtion of Crud Catcher Mounts.....!

When was the last time anyone saw a Roberts Bottom line, or a Dave Yates or Dave Lloyd E-stay...........???

No what i am merely suggesting, is a place here where we can go to for permanent reference and conversation.

My example being the "British Steel" thread, so when these bikes do pop up for sale, people dont disregard them as old Iron, and can go straight to a point of contact, and ask questions......Who Knows What may re-surface.... i mean look at this formula or even the Fronteria......Both built by Paul Donahue, and yet a builder, that isnt overly Known or regarded, just like Kevin Winter for Example.

And what makes these two Frame builders any less important than say Ross Shafer of Salsa Cycles....? Nothing in my Opinion, they are all skilled craftsmen working with steel, in a shed somewhere, the only difference is how it was heavily Marketed and how the consumer percieved the Image.

To my mind i am thankful for RETROBIKE, if not for this site, and its members, could the Formula have been Overlooked as nothing more than a old broken bike.....?

And i also feel there is far too much Conjecture when it comes to our own History.

It Needs Recording as the Facts become avaliable imho.

Carl, you and I are in complete agreement, and my comments were not aimed at you, to repeat myself "I salute and concur with your sentiment".

 

[sinnerman]

Neil, i havent suggested for one minute that these bikes all need to be Museum pieces, on the contrary, i too agree that this would be a great shame.

And i see no reason why any of these bikes cant be ridden, whether the owner refinishes them or not.

As better men than me have Said, the paintwork is merely a veneer...!!!
And the joy of these steel bikes is they can be fixed when broken, as the formula is.

And once it has been fixed, whether repainted or not, i see NO earthly reason why it couldnt or shouldnt be ridden, it takes no skill at all to ride it, and clean it, and treat it with respect.

As you can perhaps tell, Im NO fan of Garage Queens.

No the point i was trying to make, is this.

In the Great scheme of things, i consider our little Islands contribution to the worldwide mountain bike market at this time, almost as a cottage industry.

And due to Market dominance from overseas, whether America or the Far east, the Uk scene was perhaps Overlooked to a degree by many people, and subsequently, the information surrounding the Uk efforts have been scattered, and/or not recorded.

We only have to look around, to see it, i believe you yourself are riding a Roberts at the moment and are still unsure of its Origins/model, we think its a White Spider, but it has clearly been modified by the removal of the brake hanger and the addtion of Crud Catcher Mounts.....!

When was the last time anyone saw a Roberts Bottom line, or a Dave Yates or Dave Lloyd E-stay...........???

No what i am merely suggesting, is a place here where we can go to for permanent reference and conversation.

My example being the "British Steel" thread, so when these bikes do pop up for sale, people dont disregard them as old Iron, and can go straight to a point of contact, and ask questions......Who Knows What may re-surface.... i mean look at this formula or even the Fronteria......Both built by Paul Donahue, and yet a builder, that isnt overly Known or regarded, just like Kevin Winter for Example.

And what makes these two Frame builders any less important than say Ross Shafer of Salsa Cycles....? Nothing in my Opinion, they are all skilled craftsmen working with steel, in a shed somewhere, the only difference is how it was heavily Marketed and how the consumer percieved the Image.

To my mind i am thankful for RETROBIKE, if not for this site, and its members, could the Formula have been Overlooked as nothing more than a old broken bike.....?

And i also feel there is far too much Conjecture when it comes to our own History.

It Needs Recording as the Facts become avaliable imho.

Carl, you and I are in complete agreement, and my comments were not aimed at you, to repeat myself "I salute and concur with your sentiment".

Neil, i really didnt think you were, i just felt the need to elaborate, on my thoughts, and try and explain myself a little better.

I think all to often people take other peoples bikes and threads, as the OP showing off, or trying to display there wealth, when in fact, sometimes its merely a case of trying to demonstrate the reasons for the OPs choices, or better still,.......demonstrate what english frame builders were doing, at a time when the market was naturally being led by the Americans.

My case in point being, my own "Warriors and Warlords" thread.

I suspect, it has or will be misconstrude as nothing more than "here he goes again,", when in fact its was and is nothing of the sort.

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=198394

I have collected bikes and parts all my life, and have reasons for my choices as everyone does, and although i expect the vast majority of members find the threads tedious and full of info they already know, i have been trying to document what caused a bike to be highly regarded, and also demonstrate what we as a Nation were doing here, whilst the market was being led by other legends and innovators like KB.

I certainly didnt feel these two bikes could be compared directly, even though they are of a similar retail price and model year. I think this would have been totally unfare to both craftsmen.

But i still felt the need to try and document both bikes together. Even if it ultimately was misconstrude.

 

[NeilM]

Keep up the good work Carl.

I for one, have been inspired by your work, not necessarily to replicate what you do, that's not my style, but the purchase of my own White Spider (or whatever it is) was as a direct result of your posts.

I will continue to be awed by your restorations and by those of the other contributors to RB, and inspired to search our more of the 'British Masters'.

P.S. If anyone has a Dave Lloyd frame that could use a new home.....

 

[sylus]

I've just re-read the other formula thread and michael from orange seems to think that one, which is identical to this one...is a donahue built formula

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewto ... c&start=60

page 5 half way down

 

[sinnerman]

I've just re-read the other formula thread and michael from orange seems to think that one, which is identical to this one...is a donahue built formula

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewto ... c&start=60

page 5 half way down

No doubt in my mind either.

A rare and Important model in my humble Opinion.