one for the wheelbuilders

[cce]

Built 10-12 wheels now, and this is the first one i've had a problem with

it's a rear wheel, ambrosio zenith on mavic open sport, ACI DB spokes and brass nipples, 32 3x, nipples lubricated with engine oil (i've used this in all my wheels) and the NDS spokes keep unscrewing themslves.

i'd put maybe 120-150 miles on it before i started having any problems, riding home one day i noticed a soft feeling from the rear like a puncture. all the NDS spokes had come loose!

I wound all the tension off all the spokes and retensioned it from scratch following the over-turn-and-turn-back method. trued and relieved it and then rode it about 10 miles. Loose NDS spokes again.

any thoughts? Tension is comparable to an open pro i have on the same model of hub.

 

[Neil]

Are the spokes definitely the correct length for the NDS, could less thread being used account?

If it happens again, I'd either try different nipples, or degrease the NDS nipples and spoke threads retension and see what happens. If they then stay tensioned, I'd just use something else to prevent them seizing on the threads, for that particular wheel.

 

[cce]

spokes are definitely longer on the NDS.

i'm sorely tempted to pull it apart and rebuild it using coppaslip as i do for alloy nippled wheels.

 

[Antstark]

Its expensive....but proper spoke prep might be your option... it acts a bit like a light threadlock but will also stop them seizing. Copperslip will not hold them..in fact it does the opposite. With brass nipples you shouldn't really have to prep them anyway as it inherently low friction.

 

[cce]

i build a fair few wheels, so proper spoke prep has been on my radar for a while.

This is the first wheel i've built with ACI spokes. All the others have been DT (Comp/Rev), and apart from stuffing one in an accident, they've all been sound under me and others.

 

[Antstark]

I used to use it when I was building 10s of wheels a week...but as its 1 or 2 every month or so i don't bother. Never had an issue with ACI spokes, they always seem as well made as the DTs. Were they new? and did you use new nipples? Learnt early on its best not to reuse nipples

i build a fair few wheels, so proper spoke prep has been on my radar for a while.

This is the first wheel i've built with ACI spokes. All the others have been DT (Comp/Rev), and apart from stuffing one in an accident, they've all been sound under me and others.

 

[cce]

everything was brand new when i built them

 

[cyclotoine]

I use bees wax heated and mixed with a bit of mineral oil to keep it soft as my my thread prep. Works great.

If I had to make a guess at why you are loosing tension I would say overall tension is too low.

If you do unlace, don't reuse the nipples.

 

[cce]

If I had to make a guess at why you are loosing tension I would say overall tension is too low.

I've wound some more tension on. I'm not using it for a few days, so we'll see how it goes next week.

 

[cyclotoine]

I can't overemphasize the idea of paired spoke tension either. If you don't have a tension meter, buy one.

Many guys will chime in to say they don't need it, been doing it for decades. I don't build a lot of wheel. Maybe a couple sets a year on average, but I have been building wheels for close to 10 years. When a grad of the DT swiss wheel building class started working at the shop I worked in a few years ago he told me about paired spoke tension and how it was the most important measure of tension on the wheel. My wheels were super solid and I was happy with them, but I found my paired tension was not as good as it could be and I started making sure all the paired spokes (the ones that cross at the last crossing) had more or less equal tension. I would true wheels build by other mechanics that were all over the place and match paired spoke tension in the process and the next time that wheel came back I didn't have to touch it. I was amazed at how this simple lesson could make such a better wheel. Maybe if you build wheels for a living you can feel this, but as an ex mechanic and now hobbyist I think a tension meter is critical to building the best wheel you can. Buy one before you even get an expensive truing stand. I build with a minoura folder and a park dish and tension gauge. All you need.