Old Spoke Threading Tool / Can I find some nipples which fit

[bduc61]

I have sourced a nice vintage bike tool

a spoke threading machine

But the issue is the following
Presently it is with a die 3x0.6 probably for motorbikes spokes

I can find a new die of 2.00 mm that can probably fit - my tool has a 25mm diameter one presently and dies of 1 inch -2.54 can be sourced
so part one of the issue can probably be solved

part 2 looks more tricky
I can find direct spokes ( constant diameter 2mm ) but
as now spokes are threaded not with a die that takes metal away, but with a tool that compress the spoke so "rolled" , as far as I understand the diameter for the nipple is greater than the initial spoke.

Is this correct ?

With my tool, it won't be the case
So can I source nipples that will have a diameter of 2mm ? and fit my old fashioned threaded 2mm spokes ???

In any case I love these old tools, they exude a workmanship and quality that amazes me, when tool where manufactured without a lot of reasoning about cost and price !




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[originalshinkicker]

Re: Old Spoke Threading Tool / Can I find some nipples which

That looks like a die? Bicycle spoke threads are rolled, not cut.

 

[bduc61]

Re: Old Spoke Threading Tool / Can I find some nipples which

That looks like a die? Bicycle spoke threads are rolled, not cut.

not in the old days I believe

 

[Jonny69]

Re: Old Spoke Threading Tool / Can I find some nipples which

I can find a new die of 2.00 mm that can probably fit - my tool has a 25mm diameter one presently and dies of 1 inch -2.54 can be sourced
so part one of the issue can probably be solved

Yes. Dies are 25mm or 1" as far as I know and you'll be able to interchange them. The initial thread that it cuts is slightly over and you use those two square-ended screws to close the die up to the correct diameter.

part 2 looks more tricky
I can find direct spokes ( constant diameter 2mm ) but
as now spokes are threaded not with a die that takes metal away, but with a tool that compress the spoke so "rolled" , as far as I understand the diameter for the nipple is greater than the initial spoke.

Is this correct ?

Not sure I fully understand so I might need you to elaborate. Yes, modern threads are rolled. Rolled is stronger but it's probably cheaper to produce as well. By hand it's much easier to cut them but they will be weaker than rolled threads. When you cut a thread, you usually start with the finished diameter and cut the thread into it, so to answer your question it's not oversize when you start and it won't be undersize when you finish as long as you don't close up the die too far. A rolled thread also won't be undersize when finished and I don't think they're oversize to start with. Also, from lacing wheels, the thread on all the spokes I have handled has been the same diameter as the spoke. The only bit on a spoke that is smaller diameter than the thread is the middle bit on a double-butted spoke.

So can I source nipples that will have a diameter of 2mm ? and fit my old fashioned threaded 2mm spokes ???

As far as I know the thread size/count on spokes hasn't changed so as long as you get the the right die it should fit all nipples.

 

[bduc61]

Re: Old Spoke Threading Tool / Can I find some nipples which

I can find a new die of 2.00 mm that can probably fit - my tool has a 25mm diameter one presently and dies of 1 inch -2.54 can be sourced
so part one of the issue can probably be solved

Yes. Dies are 25mm or 1" as far as I know and you'll be able to interchange them. The initial thread that it cuts is slightly over and you use those two square-ended screws to close the die up to the correct diameter.

part 2 looks more tricky
I can find direct spokes ( constant diameter 2mm ) but
as now spokes are threaded not with a die that takes metal away, but with a tool that compress the spoke so "rolled" , as far as I understand the diameter for the nipple is greater than the initial spoke.

Is this correct ?

Not sure I fully understand so I might need you to elaborate. Yes, modern threads are rolled. Rolled is stronger but it's probably cheaper to produce as well. By hand it's much easier to cut them but they will be weaker than rolled threads. When you cut a thread, you usually start with the finished diameter and cut the thread into it, so to answer your question it's not oversize when you start and it won't be undersize when you finish as long as you don't close up the die too far. A rolled thread also won't be undersize when finished and I don't think they're oversize to start with. Also, from lacing wheels, the thread on all the spokes I have handled has been the same diameter as the spoke. The only bit on a spoke that is smaller diameter than the thread is the middle bit on a double-butted spoke.

So can I source nipples that will have a diameter of 2mm ? and fit my old fashioned threaded 2mm spokes ???

As far as I know the thread size/count on spokes hasn't changed so as long as you get the the right die it should fit all nipples.

what I meant about diameters is that
when cut, the spoke which is direct - ie constant diameter of 2mm- has a diameter that does not change so an old nipple of 2mm is ok
when rolled, I had the impression that the diameter which initially is the same at 2 mm is slightly increased by the compression of the "rolling" so nipples that are used but labelled 2mm may have an actual internal diameter slightly greater so 2.2mm . They fit a 2mm spoke because every spoke is now rolled but would be loose for a 2mm cut spoke with a die
Am I clearer ?
The issue being
I can buy a die of 2mm and cut /thread my spokes but will I find nipples that will fit these spokes which don't use the same rolling method for threading ?

I believe that the thread has actually changed in the 50/60's ie, the space between each turn has been changed ( so more or less turn per inches, I don't know but it did change
and its sure that initially, the threading in France was metric ( my die is a 3mm x 0.6 mm ) but is not any more for spokes ?