Mercedes 190E..any good? Yes! Pic of the one I bought page 5

[detomaso]

that and replacing the injectors as they are renowned for clogging up.

Meant to say, there's people who can service injectors, probably for a fraction of the cost of new ones.

Yeah I've seen those companies (there's a clip from one on you tube showing the process), but despite what you say about not being much difference they don't seem to have much affect on the injectors in the 190e 2.6 :cry: Far better to save your £50 and spend £80 on a new set.

 

[Neil]

Ive driven the same car. Its in 2nd when drive is selected and then shifts to first at kick down. The engine is powerfull enough to pull off in 2nd quite rapidly anyway (3.2litre 6 cylinder), and you don't even notice your in second to be honest. When it kicks down to first you do get a punch alright, but its not something done very often so the clutch copes fine. These are MB drivers your talking about here, not your usual riff raff

Ah, thanks for the info - when it kicks down, is that after it's started moving, or does it kind of do it just at pick-up from the throttle?

 

[Harryburgundy]

Quote from the 190E Forum for those technically minded. Also suggests harshness in gear changes most likely down to vacuum leak.

When the S mode is selected 2nd gear is used when moving off with low load with the lever in D or 3.When moving off with high load(heavy throttle) First gear is selected for maximum acceleration.It will also allow later upshifts of the transmission.
When the E mode is selected The car will start off in second gear whilst the selector is in D or 3 in all load conditions.There is no part throttl kickdown possible,although Full kickdown is still possible.The Box will shift up sooner at all load speeds.

When the E/S switch is operated it passes vacuum from the swichover valve on the bulkhead to the vacuum element on the kickdown cable.This operates a pin inside the lower part of the cable which pushes against a rod attached to the Bell crank of the control pressure valve inside the box.
This limits the travel of the control pressure valve and thus limits the control pressure,dependent upon throttle position.
When full kickdown is operated in E,the kickdown switch disconnects the power to the switch over valve and allows the vac element to disengage from The E mode whilst the kickdown switch is pressed.

The E/S mode switch has no effect,and never has had any effect.on the engine management system.
It does not alter fueling or timing.
The reason the throttle feels sharper is,there is no resistance from the bellcrank spring when in S,so the pedal will feels slightly lighter and you retain part throttle kickdown which will make the car feel sprightly.
Concerning the other gearpositions,if the 2 position is selected at standstill it will engage first gear in either E or S,it will hold this gear until the redline or you shift out of 2.If you shift out of 2 and then back into 2, it will then hold 2 gear until you shift into 3.This way you can theorectically drive the car as a semi auto.This is a debatable practice,but Mercedes have never confirmed(to my knowledge) whether it is a "feature" or unrecommended to do this.As such i dont recommend this practice(Although i use it this way myself with no damage,but it aint gonna cost me a new gearbox if it goes bellyup )

Basically thats how it works and what it does.
Edited by Ukmerctechie, Wed Dec 3, 2008 3:20 pm.

 

[Neil]

that and replacing the injectors as they are renowned for clogging up.

Meant to say, there's people who can service injectors, probably for a fraction of the cost of new ones.

Yeah I've seen those companies (there's a clip from one on you tube showing the process), but despite what you say about not being much difference they don't seem to have much affect on the injectors in the 190e 2.6 :cry: Far better to save your £50 and spend £80 on a new set.

£80 for a new set, and that's what I'd do, too.

Is that the price MB sell 'em for, or are they aftermarket ones?

 

[Neil]

Quote from the 190E Forum for those technically minded. Also suggests harshness in gear changes most likely down to vacuum leak.

When the S mode is selected 2nd gear is used when moving off with low load with the lever in D or 3.When moving off with high load(heavy throttle) First gear is selected for maximum acceleration.It will also allow later upshifts of the transmission.
When the E mode is selected The car will start off in second gear whilst the selector is in D or 3 in all load conditions.There is no part throttl kickdown possible,although Full kickdown is still possible.The Box will shift up sooner at all load speeds.

When the E/S switch is operated it passes vacuum from the swichover valve on the bulkhead to the vacuum element on the kickdown cable.This operates a pin inside the lower part of the cable which pushes against a rod attached to the Bell crank of the control pressure valve inside the box.
This limits the travel of the control pressure valve and thus limits the control pressure,dependent upon throttle position.
When full kickdown is operated in E,the kickdown switch disconnects the power to the switch over valve and allows the vac element to disengage from The E mode whilst the kickdown switch is pressed.

The E/S mode switch has no effect,and never has had any effect.on the engine management system.
It does not alter fueling or timing.
The reason the throttle feels sharper is,there is no resistance from the bellcrank spring when in S,so the pedal will feels slightly lighter and you retain part throttle kickdown which will make the car feel sprightly.
Concerning the other gearpositions,if the 2 position is selected at standstill it will engage first gear in either E or S,it will hold this gear until the redline or you shift out of 2.If you shift out of 2 and then back into 2, it will then hold 2 gear until you shift into 3.This way you can theorectically drive the car as a semi auto.This is a debatable practice,but Mercedes have never confirmed(to my knowledge) whether it is a "feature" or unrecommended to do this.As such i dont recommend this practice(Although i use it this way myself with no damage,but it aint gonna cost me a new gearbox if it goes bellyup )

Basically thats how it works and what it does.
Edited by Ukmerctechie, Wed Dec 3, 2008 3:20 pm.

"vacuum leak" - is this the type of transmission that would be in a 1990 190? 'cos this sounds (largely) pre electronic control of the gearbox - it sounds as if it's largely controlled by vacuum valve and hydraulic "logic". At the beginning of the 80s, when I believe the W126 heralded from, this was probably de rigueur, but at the end of that decade, and early 90s, decent autos had retired practically all of that autonomous, hydraulic-"computer" type activity, in favour of electronic control under the guise of a dedicated electronic control unit, meaning a non-autonomous hydraulic design, internally, of the gearbox, and actuation under the instruction of electronic control utilising solenoids to actuate valves.

Did this change during the period these models were being produced - ie the W126 S class, and 190 - at some point was the transmission updated?

Don't get me wrong, modern autos are still fiendishly complex to look at, hydraulically, it's just that they don't have the autonomy the pre electronic control auto transmissions had (however, the upsides considerably outweigh this semantic displacement of computational "logic" - seen by some, perhaps purists, as a downside) - autos of that generation, had all the "logic" of how they operated in the hydraulic design (albeit with external control for various valves and switches), whereas nowadays auto transmissions have no autonomy, and the "logic" of how they operate is now in the transmission ECU, all the external switches and levers merely control electronic switches that are used as input to the ECU, actuation within the gearbox is only done with conducive instruction from the transmission ECU.

 

[legrandefromage]

Why are you blathering on about electronic gearboxes when all that was mentioned was that 1st & 2nd was a bit clunky?

Those used to a 'sport' mode would think the old Merc box a bit odd.

If I wasnt sat in my crappy Passat all day I would happily go and buy another 80's Merc of any description.

 

[Neil]

Why are you blathering on about electronic gearboxes when all that was mentioned was that 1st & 2nd was a bit clunky?

Why do you care?

Gears being / going clunky, is one of the motivations for autos going fully electronic.

Given the info posted (from another forum) about the box it may be useful for people to know about the type of 'box in a car, if they're to maintain it.

You don't have to read it if you don't want - but this thread and it's contributions aren't for the sole purpose of your approval.

 

[Harryburgundy]

Erm....whats going on here? Please keep it friendly guys.

 

[legrandefromage]

Why are you blathering on about electronic gearboxes when all that was mentioned was that 1st & 2nd was a bit clunky?

Why do you care?

Gears being / going clunky, is one of the motivations for autos going fully electronic.

Given the info posted (from another forum) about the box it may be useful for people to know about the type of 'box in a car, if they're to maintain it.

You don't have to read it if you don't want - but this thread and it's contributions aren't for the sole purpose of your approval.

I'm beginning to understand the phrase 'knowledge is porridge' :roll:

The discussion was to do with a clunky Mercedes gearbox, I think the fact that someone other than you posted something relevant to the discussion has upset you.

 

[Neil]

Why are you blathering on about electronic gearboxes when all that was mentioned was that 1st & 2nd was a bit clunky?

Why do you care?

Gears being / going clunky, is one of the motivations for autos going fully electronic.

Given the info posted (from another forum) about the box it may be useful for people to know about the type of 'box in a car, if they're to maintain it.

You don't have to read it if you don't want - but this thread and it's contributions aren't for the sole purpose of your approval.

I beginning to understand the phrase 'knowledge is porridge' :roll:

Yet apparently no understanding for "You don't have to read it if you don't want" :roll: :roll:

Are you conflicted - is somebody making you read what I've posted on the subject? Or do you just do it under sufferance in order to complain about it?

Scratch that, I don't care...

The discussion was to do with a clunky Mercedes gearbox, I think the fact that someone other than you posted something relevant to the discussion has upset you

I'm not upset in the slightest. You appear to be the one chucking things from a pram, sunshine.