Legal Highs

[Gadro]

............You will never control drugs by legalising them.
Governments being what they are, they'll treat drugs as a cash cow, and tax them to the hilt. The criminal gangs will just undercut the legit stuff with stuff of unknown potency and purity.

Well we are not in 'control' now so something has got to change before some of our community's self destruct. Look at prohibition in the States, once legalised bootleggers quickly became extinct other than Grandpa Duke . A lot of the 'familys' moved into controlled drugs once they were taken off the market and made illegal. Massive profits, a ready made market and demand getting larger every year. The Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 doesn't work, it criminalises users, who once addicted are pushed to the edge of society under the stigma of being an addict. Dodgy deals done in back alleys, syringes left in playgrounds, the walking dead hanging around on street corners. How common is the sight of people drinking water in our late night establishments but seeming to be having a 'really good' night.

Persons who say legalisation won't work are blind to the deprivation within our poorer areas. I am middle class all the way through, nice family background, nice house, car, etc. Due to my work I am regularly put into areas of our country where a lot of you would simply not go. The illegal drug culture within the UK is creating ghetto's within our Towns and City's. With the recession kicking in and hurting a lot of people we may find a few more trying to escape 'reality'

This is not a Big City problem many of the worse areas are small Towns, leftovers from the Industrialisation Boom of Heavy Industry. No Jobs, no future. I've even experienced youngsters who having failed to get hold of some 'H Plan' diet have even resorted in attempting to inject Vodka directly into their blood stream. C'mon people wake up, the drug culture is there already legalisation can prevent this shadowy world. Taxation can provide badly needed money for rehabilitation and education. Stop providing criminals with money and get away from the head in the sand culture.

For everyone with children, be warned and be prepared. The drug culture of 20 or even 10 years ago is nothing compared to whats taking place on the streets today. Speak to your kids, tell them the score even if you have to be intrusive. I know of some Community groups that will supply parents with drug testing kits free of charge, and no this isn't the States this happens in South Wales

 

[lumos2000]

i totaly agree Gadro. we all saw what happend with the "just say no" campaign. we didnt know what we were spose to be saying no to. so most of us wanted to find out. my parents wouldent of had a clue of how to educate me about drugs, my mum even found resin in the washing and gave it back to me :roll: with not a clue to what it was.
its in the nature of kids to be courious and if left to their own devices they will experiment. the problem is that the people in charge of educating the kids and making the laws have no real experiance with the problem.
as to legal highs i remember watching a documentry about this a little while back, they were speeking to a coroner who basically said if you want to get high then use proper drugs as we have experince with them and know what to do if you overdose!

 

[suburbanreuben]

............You will never control drugs by legalising them.
Governments being what they are, they'll treat drugs as a cash cow, and tax them to the hilt. The criminal gangs will just undercut the legit stuff with stuff of unknown potency and purity.

Well we are not in 'control' now so something has got to change before some of our community's self destruct. Look at prohibition in the States, once legalised bootleggers quickly became extinct other than Grandpa Duke . A lot of the 'familys' moved into controlled drugs once they were taken off the market and made illegal. Massive profits, a ready made market and demand getting larger every year. The Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 doesn't work, it criminalises users, who once addicted are pushed to the edge of society under the stigma of being an addict. Dodgy deals done in back alleys, syringes left in playgrounds, the walking dead hanging around on street corners. How common is the sight of people drinking water in our late night establishments but seeming to be having a 'really good' night.

Persons who say legalisation won't work are blind to the deprivation within our poorer areas. I am middle class all the way through, nice family background, nice house, car, etc. Due to my work I am regularly put into areas of our country where a lot of you would simply not go. The illegal drug culture within the UK is creating ghetto's within our Towns and City's. With the recession kicking in and hurting a lot of people we may find a few more trying to escape 'reality'

This is not a Big City problem many of the worse areas are small Towns, leftovers from the Industrialisation Boom of Heavy Industry. No Jobs, no future. I've even experienced youngsters who having failed to get hold of some 'H Plan' diet have even resorted in attempting to inject Vodka directly into their blood stream. C'mon people wake up, the drug culture is there already legalisation can prevent this shadowy world. Taxation can provide badly needed money for rehabilitation and education. Stop providing criminals with money and get away from the head in the sand culture.

For everyone with children, be warned and be prepared. The drug culture of 20 or even 10 years ago is nothing compared to whats taking place on the streets today. Speak to your kids, tell them the score even if you have to be intrusive. I know of some Community groups that will supply parents with drug testing kits free of charge, and no this isn't the States this happens in South Wales

I didn't say we were in "Control" now; it was you that suggested Legalisation results in control. Read what I said- Criminals will always be able to undercut the legitimate supply, and the shadowy underworld will continue.
I agree something has to be done, but legalisation alone, if at all, is not the whole answer.

 

[highlandsflyer]

How much illicit booze is sold relative to legit?

Granted, the market in dodgy fags is huge but that is purely down to the high level of taxation.

 

[Gadro]

I didn't say we were in "Control" now; it was you that suggested Legalisation results in control. Read what I said- Criminals will always be able to undercut the legitimate supply, and the shadowy underworld will continue.
I agree something has to be done, but legalisation alone, if at all, is not the whole answer.

Yes I did say Legalisation does give control, and I stand by it. Legalisation with impose approved standards, provide safer environments, such simple things could be used, such as providing a safety information slip with every 'deal.' Money gained in revenue by taxation can be pumped into a proper support framework and even supplement the NHS.

I'm not stupid enough to think that legalisation will not give an initial increase in usage but just look how tobacco use has increasingly become frowned upon. In ten years time we might be pleasantly surprised by what legalisation brings.

OK I agree there will still be some illicit dealing, same as tobacco. Smuggled in from country's where taxation is not as high. But you won't be smoking, sniffing or injecting some concoction that a back street dealer has cut his drugs with. Most dealers will simply be unable to compete with the ease of supply and guarantee of a safer product. Gradually illicit makers and dealers will become extinct.

If my daughter ever wants to experiment (God forbid but I'm a realist) then I would much prefer that she was able to purchase these items in a safe environment rather than meeting up with 'Dodgy Dave' at the rear of a nightclub and handing over cash for something which can contain bloody anything.

It all boils down to this, we cannot stop the import of controlled drugs, we cannot stop the production of controlled drugs within the UK. This is impossible, not enough Police, Our borders although secure are not secure enough (never will be unless an Orwellian future comes to pass). We cannot stop those members of society who want to use, finding a supplier and using. The demand is there and it's not going away. Legalise it, Tax it, prevent criminals from benefiting financially and protect users from deadly concoctions.

 

[Neil]

By the way Crystal Meth is now in the UK. Also called methamphetamine. If you don't know what it is Google it or watch Youtube for some Vids.

Or watch Breaking Bad - pretty much a good educational introduction to it ;-)

 

[Bram J]

All I know about drugs is that they're crap.
If you need stuff like that to make you're life interesting you must be quite a boring person.
I know a lot of guys who do drugs on a regular base, and they're all lowlifes. Half of them is unemployed, some didn't finish school, none of them went to college (and not just because they're stupid, which they're not!) and none of them has a girlfriend.
I'm not saying these guys are bad people, but they're probably not even going to reach a fraction of their potential, because they make bad choices.

 

[Bram J]

And I am very much against the legalisation of drugs... we already have good old alcohol . And 'legalise and control' doesn't work either, legally produced drugs could NEVER compete with way cheaper to produce illegal drugs. And by the way, marihuana is legal in the Netherlands too, but no-one actualy knows where it all comes from... not even the government. These drugs will still be suplied by the ones who are doing it right now, and they will still finance their causes with the profit.
Legalise and control my ass! Every day a new drug is discovered too, so the government has to supply all these drugs legally?
I don't think we will make any progress that way...
Real solutions for matters like are not that simple. As humans we would like to believe that they are, but sadly they're not.
It all starts with the parents. There are 2 wrong ways to prevent your kid from doing drugs:
1) You can't do this blablabla you can't to that blablabla if you do that i'll kick you out of the house blablabla.
2) Alowing EVERYTHING
It's up to the parents to supply their kids with the right genuine information when needed, and to make them realise that drugs can be harmful not by telling lies but by giving the facts.

 

[highlandsflyer]

If you need stuff like that to make you're life interesting you must be quite a boring person.

Sure there are people using drugs to escape humdrum existence, but many people use them in a very controlled way as well.

Generalising is not the answer to any of the questions being asked in the journey to a solution to this 'problem'. We have to realise drug use is as complex as the people using drugs.

I won't bother listing a few of the amazing creative types who used drugs to enhance their art.

People who sit around smoking dope all day rather than getting off their ass and doing something fit the bill though, and I have met a lot of them so I get your point.

 

[KeepItSteel]

I agree with the above, it hasnt seemed to have done Dylan, Bowie etc any harm (except perhaps to their record sales when they record 'sober' albums), not to mention the bare walls we would see in the museums and gallieries should out artistic brothers not have dabbled.

For me it comes down to the individual. My mum would probably faint if she knew half of what I got up to on my teenage/early 20's visits to Amsterdam.
Im not a boring person (honestly, ask my friends), and whatever ive dabbled with has been more of a curious experiment, and one or two of the funniest most memorable nights of my life have been under certain influences.
But im reasoned enough to completely stop after the experiment is over.
I think thats the difference.

Free your mind, and the rest will follow.