Klein - to be or not to be?

[David Gibson]

klein

"If Trek had any sense, they’d be using the Klein brand the way Toyota uses Lexus – i.e., very high quality cars that can compete with Merc/BMW because their brand name isn’t associated with budget cars. After all, that must have been their rationale for buying Klein in the first place. "

Kind of like what Ibis has done. It's a different situation but you're right, they could come out with high-concept carbon bikes and revamp the name.

 

[purplewicked]

I’m not defending every decision taken BITD, I’m just saying Klein is still a fantastic brand name that only Cannondale equals and it just needs to make great bikes now. Trek own that brand name and letting it wither away is bad business – in business, if you own an asset you should either use it to the max or sell it to realise its value.

Cannondale are selling a carbon fibre hardtail for £4,200 (the Taurine SL Team, 20lbs, frame 2.75lbs). Trek have good skills with carbon fibre, but they can’t compete with Cannondale because the Trek name just doesn’t cut it (and nor does Gary Fisher). If Trek had any sense, they’d be using the Klein brand the way Toyota uses Lexus – i.e., very high quality cars that can compete with Merc/BMW because their brand name isn’t associated with budget cars. After all, that must have been their rationale for buying Klein in the first place.

And a top-quality carbon fibre Klein wouldn’t just be a great bike, it wouldn’t even shake your fillings out AndrewL!

LOL..cannondale is as pedestrian as trek or specialized in the US, south america and far east.
cannondale is a mass production, hype driven, mass oriented, cycling industry giant.

 

[purplewicked]

Re: klein

"If Trek had any sense, they’d be using the Klein brand the way Toyota uses Lexus – i.e., very high quality cars that can compete with Merc/BMW because their brand name isn’t associated with budget cars. After all, that must have been their rationale for buying Klein in the first place. "

Kind of like what Ibis has done. It's a different situation but you're right, they could come out with high-concept carbon bikes and revamp the name.

i guess klein, fischer and bontrager were bought for their knowledge, technology, patents and depth within the mtb community and not for the label.
no one wanted a bike like an attitude or adrooit in mid 90s. kleins were expensive to produce. why should trek keep the brand as a showroom icon? lexuses sell. kleins don't sell. only to guys who won't buy it cause"it's a trek".
the new ibis mojo is a hit. it's voted best bike everywhere. it works. it's innovative and it's price is competitive. no one is buying the ibis mojo carbon for any "legacy" BS.

 

[Carsten]

I’m not defending every decision taken BITD, I’m just saying Klein is still a fantastic brand name that only Cannondale equals and it just needs to make great bikes now. Trek own that brand name and letting it wither away is bad business – in business, if you own an asset you should either use it to the max or sell it to realise its value.

Cannondale are selling a carbon fibre hardtail for £4,200 (the Taurine SL Team, 20lbs, frame 2.75lbs). Trek have good skills with carbon fibre, but they can’t compete with Cannondale because the Trek name just doesn’t cut it (and nor does Gary Fisher). If Trek had any sense, they’d be using the Klein brand the way Toyota uses Lexus – i.e., very high quality cars that can compete with Merc/BMW because their brand name isn’t associated with budget cars. After all, that must have been their rationale for buying Klein in the first place.

And a top-quality carbon fibre Klein wouldn’t just be a great bike, it wouldn’t even shake your fillings out AndrewL!

Marcus Storck (the German Klein distributor until the merger in 95) essentially did exactly that, a Carbon Adroit with rigid fork.

 

[Anthony]

Changing the subject slightly, but it does seem as though carbon fibre is the theme that’s running through this, and it looks now to have established itself as the best frame material available. I’ve never particularly liked Cannondales for all the reasons stated above, but a bike like today’s Taurine (see rave reviews) could be *the* retro bike of the future. Whatever you say about titanium and steel, a 2.75lb frame that’s fast enough to dominate world championship xc, but with a rear end compliant enough to be a comfortable all-day ride simply redefines the top end of the market.

Agreeing that where Klein went wrong was in charging mega money for fast but uncomfortable bikes, carbon fibre offers the perfect antidote – even lighter, much more comfort, demonstrable inherent value. And they already sell carbon fibre road bikes, so why not mtb?

Whatever mistakes they made, Klein is still the coolest name in the business and with the dollar at current levels, it’s hard to see how Trek could fail to make money out of exporting a new generation of carbon-only Klein mtbs.

 

[brusque]

klein is dead…
It died when trek bought it. :roll:

YES :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

 

[andrewl]

Re: klein

i guess klein, fischer and bontrager were bought for their knowledge, technology, patents and depth within the mtb community and not for the label.
no one wanted a bike like an attitude or adrooit in mid 90s. kleins were expensive to produce. why should trek keep the brand as a showroom icon? lexuses sell. kleins don't sell. only to guys who won't buy it cause"it's a trek".
the new ibis mojo is a hit. it's voted best bike everywhere. it works. it's innovative and it's price is competitive. no one is buying the ibis mojo carbon for any "legacy" BS.

I'd have to agree there, the recent Kleins are just as uncomfortable to ride in comparison to their competion as the old ones were, so its no wonder they don't sell.

If Trek actually produced a Klein badged bike that rode well as opposed to spending all their effort on paint jobs then you'd there would be a good argument for carrying on the name otherwise just let it die.

Alternatively just taking a stock Carbon Trek and painting it in Klein style fades etc would be a better move than the current crop of Klein bikes.

 

[cchris2lou]

Cannondale might be bought by Pacific corporation ( GT , Schwinn etc.. ) , so they ll probably end up the same way .

 

[Crell]

Which kind of goes back to the recent innovation thread.

These manufacturers made bikes that were different, loaded with innovation, looked great, were lighter, were ridden by the icons of the time (add or remove for each in turn per manufacturer). These days their innovation is mainstream, absorbed in affordable mass produced bikes.

If you wanted these things in 1990 you had to go to a "boutique" supplier who was often the manufacturer as well. If you appreciated the engineering you were happy to hand over your hard earned to get it. (I do miss the age of Billet CNC )

Bikes like the Stork are today's equivalent, hugely expensive, equally desireable, but in what's a fairly mature sport the innovation is less of a leap forward with each year. We've seen most of it done before. You can get a bike that costs a fraction of the Storks price that will ride it very closely...the bang for the buck (pound) arguement is so weak in today's market.

 

[pinguwin]

Several people have called the older Klein uncomfortable. I don't agree with that. Some have said that Al bikes leave them sore and that may well be the case but I didn't find them to be so.

I was regularily doing 6-7 hour days and up to 13 hour days (90+% on bike) in North Shore* riding and quite simply never got sore. Yes, I mean never. No beat hands, back, or shoulders. Granted I was in incredible shape but I don't feel the uncomfortableness that some described.

I don't doubt that some people did experience it but it's far from a 'fact'.

Pinguwin

*North Shore referring to the north shore of Lake Superior (the *real* and original north shore riding)