I wouldn't buy a electric car from

[mattr]

That is not necessarily a bad trade off. Lots of drivers do a daily run of less than 50km, so potentially could restrict fossil runs to longer trips.

Oh i know, the whole image of the industry and what cars are used for is f**ked. In the last ~20 years average commuting distance has barely moved, neither has the distribution curve. What you do have, is a lot more cars on the road. So it's still something like 80-85% of the european population would be best served for the huge majority of their driving by a small electric hatchback with a sub 100km range, then hire for the 3 occasions in a year when they a) go to IKEA b) go to Aunty Doris's place or c) drive to the Alps for a holiday. And a good chunk of the 80-85% should really be on a bus/bike/foot. But we haven't got any buses, cyclists are being scared off (at least in the UK) and a lot of the infrastructure is designed so badly that walking or cycling is really not an option.

We are hoping to get a 100 mile range out of a 4x4 conversion. That would cover us for more than a couple of days.

Yeah, i posted that converted mini a few months ago, that's currently sized to do his "worst case" daily drive, so -20 degrees, normal traffic levels and about 100km to work and back + a margin of about 20%. When it's not in pieces for updates, repairs, playing with, he uses it pretty much every day.

 

[mattr]

You want to spend £85,000+ to be able to drive 31 miles???

Smaller tank. Not no tank.
Think it's about 55-60 litres now, instead of ~75. All about reducing weight and freeing up space for the batteries. Which give you ~50km range. And if it's a plug in, you could technically never start the engine for an average EU commute.
I know it's actually an industry issue now. Larger capacity batteries being used with more powerful motors, so a daily "cross city" commute actually starts to give issues with the fuel going off, or being the wrong mix for the season because it takes so long to burn through a tank full.

Our record is currently 8 months between refills.

Also potential issues with starter motors, engine oil, condensation and so on.

 

[FluffyChicken]

Re:

That electric/tank trade of is an excellent idea.
Most the people driving them will not touch the petrol in the tank, unless they forget to plug it in.
But the choice is there to go further if needed


Win win to the typical motorist as far as I can see it.

Cost doesn't come into it, people can 'afford' these things.

Anyway the busses are jammed behind the cyclist or stuck in traffic with all the cars and delivery cans from e-shipping.
The walkers cannot walk as the paths have the cars parked on them.
And few of the local shops sell a lot anyway.

And so you need a car than does the city, hairdressers and school run, can get you out to the next city for a fancy shopping trio or to return a delivery to John Lewis

I'd buy electric if I could afford the initial outlay, I have no need to generate my pollution near me.

 

[torqueless]

Re:

The 'electric car' is a techno-delusion on a par with the 'energy too cheap to meter' and the 'paperless office'. How are those working out for you?

 

[legrandefromage]

So you still want to spend £85000 just to drive 31 miles. Because I doubt you'll get that much before the petrol engine has to rumble into life.

The current new mini countryman hybrid - customer bought it and was happy to get one and a half journeys to work and back. Great, what its designed for even if it's the size of a house. What really pissed him off was the woeful 30mpg on a trip from Bedford to Sheffield. Losing any supposed benefits of the work trip.

Please explain how or why this car and others are sold as 'green' vehicles. Other than a VAT scam I cant think of any.

 

[mattr]

So you still want to spend £85000 just to drive 31 miles.

No, i don't. I wouldn't spend that much on a car, but lots of people do. At at least, they want to limit their BIK on the company car.

Because I doubt you'll get that much before the petrol engine has to rumble into life.

Maybe, maybe not, i get slightly more than the rated range on the hybrids i borrow, around 8-10%. But i don't have a typical commute.

The current new mini countryman hybrid - customer bought it and was happy to get one and a half journeys to work and back. Great, what its designed for even if it's the size of a house. What really pissed him off was the woeful 30mpg on a trip from Bedford to Sheffield. Losing any supposed benefits of the work trip.

As ever, 99% of it is how you drive it. I can get the same car from over 60mpg to under 30mpg on the same test cycle/route taking almost the same time (within 5 minutes over 90 minutes). One is generally referred to as "driving like a c##t" the other isn't. If i didn't have to keep my licence, i could get the 30 down into the low teens without a struggle. And that's a very large hybrid estate car.

Please explain how or why this car and others are sold as 'green' vehicles. Other than a VAT scam I cant think of any.

It's an emissions fudge as well. Fleet average, WLTP, NEDC and so on. None of them bare more than a passing resemblance to actual driving in an actual car.
Why do you think the Prius exists? Toyota were getting reamed in the US as they pretty much only sold large trucks. So the Prius was born, easy way to slash your fleet average numbers.

Hopefully the next set of changes to emission standards will fix the issue.

 

[xerxes]

Re:

Hopefully the next set of changes to emission standards will fix the issue.

I wouldn't hold your breath; although given the air polution, that's not a bad idea.

I'm in agreement with LGF, we're not going to achieve much all the while we continue to make oversize, overweight and overpowered vehicles. And making electric vehicles that mimic the existing fossil fueled behemouths is just a nonsense.

It's rediculous when you consider that around 90% of the energy used by a vehicle, in whatever form, deisel, petrol or electric, is for moving it's own bulk and the small remainder is for you and the shopping.

 

[legrandefromage]

My '2019' model transit courier is limited to 62mph. Apparently to get around the emissions.

Its a 1.6d so it should be very clean.

Ford want real money to select the tick box in the software to remove the limiter.

I don't know if the emissions part is true but its what I was told.

However, the transit connect is supplied unrestricted...

 

[mattr]

Re: Re:

Hopefully the next set of changes to emission standards will fix the issue.

I wouldn't hold your breath; although given the air polution, that's not a bad idea.

I've been partly involved in creating and reviewing the early drafts/structure for it. It'll change a lot by the time it gets implemented.

But i'm hopeful.

Some manufacturers will get absolutely hammered by it.
Everyone will take some pain.

 

[Twozaskars]

Re:

Don't fancy trawling through every single post but mostly agree with LGF on page one. I live on an estate built during the 70's and 80's so there's just about enough room currently for all the cars here. My kids won't be able to afford houses though so In three years we could have two more cars here because there's not much in the way of public transport. I own a 29 year old Renault 5, 1.2. It's great and exceeds 40mpg with ease. We also own an almost new petrol 1.0 fiesta that my mrs uses everyday for work (because she would spend 4hours+ on / waiting for buses vs 30 mins in car) Note the word 'own'. Not every shiny new car is on tick. I saved up for it because I really, really wanted it and I've worked hard for it. It does concern me that all these people are just going for lease agreements so they can keep up, as all this irresponsible borrowing previously came to a head 10 years ago which I guess these people forgot? I own a land Rover too but we won't talk about that....
Anyway, if Musk really cares about the future of the planet and believes everyone should drive leccy cars - why on earth doesn't he build cars people can actually afford?? Where is he getting the lithium for his batteries if he's not digging it out of the ground somewhere?
I've been guilty myself of falling for the SUV marketing and while I believe everyone should be allowed to spend their money on whatever they like, find it strange that so many people buy these cars just to sit in city traffic. I think the best two solutions are to improve public transport (use the HS2 money perhaps?) and encourage people to actually work near where they live instead of driving an hour to the next city or whatever.