Help with vintage Carlton frame I.D

[otherself]

Hi, I just bought a Carlton frame off ebay quite cheaply with the Buy It Now for a fixed gear project. Seller says its a 1968/69 Professional model or Giro d'Italia. I've eliminated the fact it can't be a Giro d'Italia as they had fastback stays and a welded cable guide for centre pull rear brake.

Serial is D1273, which does put it to late 1960's, but which model? '68 Carlton brochure here but not easy to say from the small B&W photo's: bulgier.net/pics/bike/catalogs/Retro-Raleighs/68-69_Carlton.pdf‎

Original colour appears to be light blue with black headtube and black bands seat panels, no decals though. Can't see any braze on's for downtube shifter or rear brake cable guides (unless they have been grinded off). It's got Nervex lugs and wrapover seatstays, seller says its Reynolds 531 throughout which I guess is correct as they wouldn't use such nice lugs on lesser tubing I suspect from common knowledge.

Its 22" centre to top, likewise top tube length. Rear spacing is 122mm.

Any Carlton boffins care to shed light?

http://oi58.tinypic.com/142df5t.jpg

 

[Spokesmann]

Any other identifying marks, i.e. on the rear seat stay drop out? D prefix would mean its earlier... c1954.

 

[OldTel]

Hi, just throwing another possible model into the ring, could it be a Franco Suisse from early / mid sixties, that prefix during the sixties can be unreliable as a date code , or if it was reliable, it may of been a special order. Terry

 

[Midlife]

Seat stay cluster are typical of the Flyer, you could order them with Nervex lugs BITD.........in fact carlton were quite obliging and would do quite a bit to the frame so it looked nothing like the catalogue

Shaun

 

[Nob]

Carlton Continental possibly but not sure about the forks.

 

[otherself]

It has Zeus dropouts, does that mean anything?

 

[otherself]

Carlton Continental possibly but not sure about the forks.

I think your right. It has the light blue / black bands, Zeus drops and wrap over Nerves lugs as the Continental was advertised.

Was 49 quid a good price?

 

[systemBuilder]

Re:

I have this exact frameset; In the USA in 1969 it was badged as a "Raleigh Competition" and came in all-black or all-british-racing-green with chromed Nervex lugs. The fork has a Davis crown (I had mine rechromed) and is pretty light (790gm for my 10.5" steerer fork/24.5" fork). As you may know, all the Carlton bikes got Ralegh model designations because there wasn't a marketing budget to make Carlton an established brand in the USA.

Frame is a little bottom-heavy, overall weight is typical for a Raleigh 531 bike, about 3000+ grams for a 24.5". Mine has 531 tubing throughout and campagnolo dropouts. The 1970 Raleigh Competition (USA) had zeus dropouts, but a different, vagner crown, like in the photo depicted below.

http://www.bulgier.net/pics/bike/catalo ... atalog.pdf

F = 1971
E = 1970
D = 1969

I resprayed mine as an RRA (1973) because frankly the 1969 competition was one of the ugliest bikes that Carlton ever made. The UK version was available in a range of colors with black panels :

http://veterancycleclublibrary.org.uk/n ... brary).pdf

The Gran Sport / Competition in the USA shared the same frameset and at times, paint, until 1973. Most models did _not_ have 531 tubing in the rear stays, and were about 100 grams heavier than a 531-throughout frameset. I think you got a good price; in the USA $100 - $150 will get you most raleigh/carlton 531 framesets on EBay, but not a PRO or TEAM bike, those are $200+.

- Don Gillies
Palo Alto, CA