Uncle Monty
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From when I first received it. I keep meaning to sort out a proper thread.
From when I first received it. I keep meaning to sort out a proper thread.
Drop out and fork spacing
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Uncle Monty
Retrobike Rider
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Found a few spare minutes to play this evening. Removing the washers between the cones and locknuts on the front wheel only reduces the axle length to 97.5 mm so not really worth it. However, as I was trial fitting it to see if the axle extended beyond the sides of the fork ends, I noticed it was not sitting up tight in the drop outs. Pretty soon became apparent that I have another issue here. The diameter of the Campagnolo axle is a little larger than the original. Just enough to stop it going all the way in. So do I take a file to the axle and wipe the threads off two sides to create a pair of flats (nasty), or take a file to the drop outs (nastier)?
As an aside - the cones, locknuts and washers are beatifully made on the Campagnolo hubs. What do the numbers mean that are stamped onto them?
Chris.
Found a few spare minutes to play this evening. Removing the washers between the cones and locknuts on the front wheel only reduces the axle length to 97.5 mm so not really worth it. However, as I was trial fitting it to see if the axle extended beyond the sides of the fork ends, I noticed it was not sitting up tight in the drop outs. Pretty soon became apparent that I have another issue here. The diameter of the Campagnolo axle is a little larger than the original. Just enough to stop it going all the way in. So do I take a file to the axle and wipe the threads off two sides to create a pair of flats (nasty), or take a file to the drop outs (nastier)?
As an aside - the cones, locknuts and washers are beatifully made on the Campagnolo hubs. What do the numbers mean that are stamped onto them?
Chris.
Uncle Monty
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Latest installment: I have sprung the rear dropouts 5mm to accept the Campagnolo hub. Installed a 5 speed freewheel that was laying around and fitted the Simplex deraileurs. Things that are wrong: I still have a bottom bracket which is too long. The correct one should shift the chainrings in by 5mm. The freewheel is 12-28, so over the capacity of the rear deraileur. The deraileur looks to be a four speed model which is a shame. Adjusted to loose the largest cog, it will shift (badly) over the remaining four. When on the 12 tooth cog, the chain is touching the seatstay. If I have understood correctly, are my options: Buy a four speed freewheel (which is narrower overall)? Leave the wheel as it is and use the deraileur I have. The shorter BB axle will improve the chainline and all this together will move the chain away from the seatstay. Or to use a 5 speed freewheel I will need to remove spacers over from the non drive side to shift the whole hub/freewheel across, re-dish the wheel, buy a 5 speed Simplex derauileur or use a Campagnolo Gran Sport? Despite its very limited movement, the Simplex front suicide changer shifts perfectly. Am I on the right track with this?
Latest installment: I have sprung the rear dropouts 5mm to accept the Campagnolo hub. Installed a 5 speed freewheel that was laying around and fitted the Simplex deraileurs. Things that are wrong: I still have a bottom bracket which is too long. The correct one should shift the chainrings in by 5mm. The freewheel is 12-28, so over the capacity of the rear deraileur. The deraileur looks to be a four speed model which is a shame. Adjusted to loose the largest cog, it will shift (badly) over the remaining four. When on the 12 tooth cog, the chain is touching the seatstay. If I have understood correctly, are my options: Buy a four speed freewheel (which is narrower overall)? Leave the wheel as it is and use the deraileur I have. The shorter BB axle will improve the chainline and all this together will move the chain away from the seatstay. Or to use a 5 speed freewheel I will need to remove spacers over from the non drive side to shift the whole hub/freewheel across, re-dish the wheel, buy a 5 speed Simplex derauileur or use a Campagnolo Gran Sport? Despite its very limited movement, the Simplex front suicide changer shifts perfectly. Am I on the right track with this?
Re:
The Simplex gear should do 5 sp easily. It needs some more tension on the top spring, you might have a choice of several different holes for the spring end. It might need less tension on the bottom spring.
Campagnolo hubs were normally generously spaced to clear the frame, and you have forged ends (I think) You do not need a spacer on the inside of the block.
Get the parallel arms pointing downwards, not forward, and with 47 x 50 on the front you should be able to get the 28, adjust the wheel back and get the chain length right.
I used a Simplex front changer, we used run them flopping loose, open out the changing fork, and bend the lower part inwards, so if the crank touched it, it would push it in a bit. I could change up a chainring with the inside of my leg.
The Simplex gear should do 5 sp easily. It needs some more tension on the top spring, you might have a choice of several different holes for the spring end. It might need less tension on the bottom spring.
Campagnolo hubs were normally generously spaced to clear the frame, and you have forged ends (I think) You do not need a spacer on the inside of the block.
Get the parallel arms pointing downwards, not forward, and with 47 x 50 on the front you should be able to get the 28, adjust the wheel back and get the chain length right.
I used a Simplex front changer, we used run them flopping loose, open out the changing fork, and bend the lower part inwards, so if the crank touched it, it would push it in a bit. I could change up a chainring with the inside of my leg.
Uncle Monty
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Thanks Keith.
With no cable connected if I get hold of the mech and squeeze it through its total horizontal movement, it will only move across four cogs. That is the limit of its throw. I can adjust it back closer to the spokes but then it will not extend to the smallest cog.
When I mentioned a spacer, I meant an axle spacer to be added on the drive side pushing the hub over towards the non drive side in order to get a bit more clearance between the drop out and the freewheel. I would have to remove the same amount from the non drive side to maintain the OLD.
I think I may try a four speed freewheel and see how it all lines up when the correct length BB axle arrives. My main reason for trying to get five speeds in there was better availability of freewheels.
Chris.
Thanks Keith.
With no cable connected if I get hold of the mech and squeeze it through its total horizontal movement, it will only move across four cogs. That is the limit of its throw. I can adjust it back closer to the spokes but then it will not extend to the smallest cog.
When I mentioned a spacer, I meant an axle spacer to be added on the drive side pushing the hub over towards the non drive side in order to get a bit more clearance between the drop out and the freewheel. I would have to remove the same amount from the non drive side to maintain the OLD.
I think I may try a four speed freewheel and see how it all lines up when the correct length BB axle arrives. My main reason for trying to get five speeds in there was better availability of freewheels.
Chris.
Uncle Monty
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Back again....
This is beginning to get on my tits. Removed the number 14 axle as I thought the chain line looked bad, although the Simplex front deraileur was shifting perfectly, and fitted a number 23 as was on the bike when I got it. A 14 is 129mm as opposed to a 23 which is 125. Now even with the front cage as far inboard as it can be, it won't shift onto the smaller ring. Doesn't even touch the chain. So I would say for the double rings, the 14 was correct all along and the bike was fitted with the wrong axle in the first place.
Meanwhile at the other end. Invested in two Everest freewheels, one four speed, one five and a chain. All 3/32 and all NOS. Tried the five speed. Better clearance to the dropout but still no way that mech will span five gears. Fitted the four speed. On the smallest cog it is just nagging to change up a gear, yet it barely gets the chain onto the largest cog- to the point it just balances on the tips of the teeth. Adjust the mechanism across towards the spokes a turn and it will drop onto the large cog. But now it won't play nicely on the small one. Adjust out the other way and you get the opposite. Beginning to think this particular Simplex mech is a 3-4 speed and only a 4 with an 1/8 chain. Rapidly approaching the "I'm not wasting any more money on this Simplex crap" threshold. A Juy 543 is expensive and I could probably get a square taper bb, Campagnolo cranks and a gran sport mech for the same money and stand a chance of them actually working.....
Back again....
This is beginning to get on my tits. Removed the number 14 axle as I thought the chain line looked bad, although the Simplex front deraileur was shifting perfectly, and fitted a number 23 as was on the bike when I got it. A 14 is 129mm as opposed to a 23 which is 125. Now even with the front cage as far inboard as it can be, it won't shift onto the smaller ring. Doesn't even touch the chain. So I would say for the double rings, the 14 was correct all along and the bike was fitted with the wrong axle in the first place.
Meanwhile at the other end. Invested in two Everest freewheels, one four speed, one five and a chain. All 3/32 and all NOS. Tried the five speed. Better clearance to the dropout but still no way that mech will span five gears. Fitted the four speed. On the smallest cog it is just nagging to change up a gear, yet it barely gets the chain onto the largest cog- to the point it just balances on the tips of the teeth. Adjust the mechanism across towards the spokes a turn and it will drop onto the large cog. But now it won't play nicely on the small one. Adjust out the other way and you get the opposite. Beginning to think this particular Simplex mech is a 3-4 speed and only a 4 with an 1/8 chain. Rapidly approaching the "I'm not wasting any more money on this Simplex crap" threshold. A Juy 543 is expensive and I could probably get a square taper bb, Campagnolo cranks and a gran sport mech for the same money and stand a chance of them actually working.....
