Damn otters

[highlandsflyer]

relatively few fishing lakes in remote areas linked to no other river.....in norfolk....really.....obviously you have not looked into it then....

Actually I spent years having canal holidays there and exploring the area. However, point me one "two acre lake that is miles from anywhere and has no stream or river run off and is not connected to any other water way" that is beyond the range of an otter from its natural habitat?

If it is a man made fishing lake, then put in place protection.

I live in a market town bordered by countryside.....5 minutes and there are no houses to speak of.....

Thought so. Townie.

Otters have not been present in environments where lakes didnt exist until maybe 100 years ago....of course they havent....as there was previously no water.....Ie. gravel pits and marl pits and clay pits railway water pits.....farm lakes and irrigation reservoirs....etc etc...estate lakes the list goes on.....

If you want to make a lake (i.e. ornamental) and want it stocked with fish then you can also put in place protection. If you are making the lake for other reasons, where is the problem?

I am not about to enter a libel battle by naming people who have been prosecuted on an open forum....or giving place names

If you dont believe it happens that is your issue not mine....

It is not libellous to name someone or link to a report, when that person has been prosecuted. I did not say that does not happen, I merely question your assertion that, "These people are incomers from towns".

 

[marin man]

Again....fishing lakes that were bult in the last 30 or 40 years when otter were not presentare often surrounded by woodland and as such are very expensive to fence.....and alot of these lakes have been cleared out even before a problem has been noticed...

Very callous of you to say they can be protected......do you own one....nope.....do you manage one nope......

The general fishery owner is on a shoe string budget and to fence a lake of fair size is difficult and expensive....it recently cost a friend of mine over 40,000 to fence his lake as the fence has to be burried to a depth of two foot which involves felling large swathes of woodland in many cases to get machinery in....

the environment agency offered to pay some of the cost.....2.5% that is all.....

And there is only one canal in norfolk...the dilham to north walsham canal which is a canalised length of the river ant.....it has been unnavigable for over 70 years......how old are you

 

[highlandsflyer]

I was on holidays on the Broads during the seventies, on a canal boat as that is what my family owned. Hence canal holidays, I am lumping it in with all the other holidays on the same, which were on the canal network. Pardon my lack of anal retention.

We cycled all over the place, exploring. I doubt you can link me to one such, "two acre lake that is miles from anywhere and has no stream or river run off and is not connected to any other water way". My point being the place is full of waterways and would historically have been a favoured habitat for otters.

I am actually one of the founding members of a fishing club managing several stocked lochs, what do you know?

My sympathies are with owners of lakes who have stocked them, but these are two different issues really.

The lack of compensation is awful, but the otters are not awful.

We either accept animals and their instincts and adjust to them, or we go back to removing them from an artificial habitat to suit our convenience.

This same debate is raging about the proposed reintroduction of species in Scotland such as the wolf.

I don't know the answer, but I do feel the interests of fishermen in the long term are better served by the return to a more natural habitat, and the campaign against poisons being used in agriculture, etc., can only stand to benefit us all, regardless of the rise in populations for a historically apt predator.

I agree when otters were being released intentionally there should have been wider consultation and more help given in protecting assets.

No argument there, but their natural increase in numbers has not happened overnight, so there has been time to adjust and prepare. That is part of managing any fish stock.

 

[marin man]

And no argument as to the otters being free and happy in the broadland habitat.....as I have said twice now I think....

Like not near a waterway huh.....well what of booton clay pit......and st peters moat that I mentioned at the beggining of this thread....what about broome pits.....what of two lakes owned by nuns fishing club near southwold.....what of the lake at holkham hall......what about heacham hall estate lake.....what about beston lake......what about seamere......most of these are well out of the way from main rivers and tributarys.....and most have been deciamted by otters.....30lb pike killed .......bream the size of a dustbin lid killed....and not even eaten.....

However you dress it up it annoys me....

It also annoys me when a strain of monastic fish dating to pre reformation times have been totally anhilated by illegaly introduced otters......perhaps you find it acceptable but I dont....

Historically in norfolk we did have otters yes...but they were not persecuted to the same level as where trout and salmon were exploited as a nice little earner........

They generally did,and do,no harm.....but when they are hard pressed to find food and the eel population in our rivers has been depleted to a level that it is now a banned industry the otter goes hungry...he then has to go further afield to find his lunch.....

This would not be an issue if the numbers were at an acceptable level....but when they are massively unnatural levels of them in an environment problems and overlaps in interests will occur......

I am first and foremost a fisherman....have been since I was about 5......so when I see an area and a fish population wiped out you can see it gets my goat......the damage in some of our smaller rivers is akin to pouring a bottle of bleach into it....every single living thing including ducks and other bird life....coots and moorhens and their young and some small mammals have been decimated.....

anyway as you will.....we are entitled to our opinions and that is mine....

 

[highlandsflyer]

However, point me one "two acre lake that is miles from anywhere and has no stream or river run off and is not connected to any other water way" that is beyond the range of an otter from its natural habitat?

Assuming you know the range of male otters?

It is a complex problem.

Like I say, I sympathise but what should be done?

 

[marin man]

Yes a good couple of miles I would imagine....but that isnt the point....the point is there are too many of them end of....the natural environment cannot support them and they are having a detrimental effect o man made waterways now....doesnt matter how you dress it up....go and join the anglers trust and see what they tell you about it

 

[gibbleking]

asbos for otters....


try taking large frogs to australia ....

 

[highlandsflyer]

Otters range over a much vaster area than that.

It really is a problem, but should the recovery of a natural predator be discouraged to save man made developments?

I just don't know what the answer is.

Sorry if you mistake that for opposition to your viewpoint.

Personally I think there should be adequate funding available to protect managed fish stocks where they are commercially viable forms of income.

We had similar debates regarding Red Kites, etc., there is no easy answer as there is always a reason these predators were persecuted originally.

 

[tintin40]

I got my first wasp this summer. Sitting on the train with the T and down the middle of the carriage comes this wasp ignores every one till me and does a 90 degree turn straight for me :shock: But i'm ready for it left hand comes up whacks it down on the floor quickly followed by the left again one dead wasp. Lucky no one was sitting next to me :twisted:
Not bad for a right handed person

I appreciate they can bee frightening in close quarters but they do a splendid job of controlling pests.

They are beautiful and interesting insects.

They sting me, it hurts. They die :twisted:

 

[tintin40]

what pests do they control?

weird things, but theyre here for a reason

Agree 100% (they do kill some spiders :cry: )