Cycle helmet debate number 56565647564 with a twist

[Woz]

Re: Re:

I suspect a cycle helmet is better than nothing, but only just. I firmly believe one's welfare as a cyclist is best served by skillful roadcraft (positioning, looking, judging speeds, reading the road, lifesaver glances etc) rather than plopping on a helmet and thinking that makes me safe on the roads. A cycle helmet might be a bit better than nothing but good roadcraft is a LOT better than nothing.

This ^

Probably worth mentioning the CTC is also not about promoting racing nor launching oneself down a quarry face. Arguably they are
about promoting bimbling around
country roads. Their position is
more than reasonable and highly
responsible to make the cyclist
themselves make the risk decision
according to their own circumstances.

 

[NeilM]

Re:

I find it interesting that this subject is so decisive.

Like others here I ride motorcycles and although I have always worn a helmet, I object to the fact it is a legal requirement. Unlike most others on here, I also ride horses and on a horse you are a lot higher off the ground than you are on almost any bike, you are also working in cooperation with another intelligent life form of independent mind, and so you are always working with an element of unpredictability. It is not a legal requirement to wear a helmet when riding a horse but everyone does it, by choice and I have been grateful for mine on at least one occasion.

I can see the CTC's point and it is a good one, the more we make casual riders or occasional commuters feel they have to wear more and more specialist gear, the more they are inclined to reach for the car keys and that is bad for everyone. I choose to wear a helmet when riding, I didn't when I was a kid, they really weren't available and I rode thousands of miles all over my little bit of North East London, not without injury from time to time. Now helmets are readily and cheaply available and so I wear one and I have always encouraged my kids to do the same.

Would I like it made a legal requirement? Absolutely bl**dy not. Would I prefer people cycle without a helmet than not cycle at all? Yes, of course. Will any debate change my mind about wearing a helmet? I very much doubt it.

 

[M-Power]

Re: Re:

I find it interesting that this subject is so decisive.

Like others here I ride motorcycles and although I have always worn a helmet, I object to the fact it is a legal requirement. Unlike most others on here, I also ride horses and on a horse you are a lot higher off the ground than you are on almost any bike, you are also working in cooperation with another intelligent life form of independent mind, and so you are always working with an element of unpredictability. It is not a legal requirement to wear a helmet when riding a horse but everyone does it, by choice and I have been grateful for mine on at least one occasion.

I can see the CTC's point and it is a good one, the more we make casual riders or occasional commuters feel they have to wear more and more specialist gear, the more they are inclined to reach for the car keys and that is bad for everyone. I choose to wear a helmet when riding, I didn't when I was a kid, they really weren't available and I rode thousands of miles all over my little bit of North East London, not without injury from time to time. Now helmets are readily and cheaply available and so I wear one and I have always encouraged my kids to do the same.

Would I like it made a legal requirement? Absolutely bl**dy not. Would I prefer people cycle without a helmet than not cycle at all? Yes, of course. Will any debate change my mind about wearing a helmet? I very much doubt it.

+1 very well said.

 

[FluffyChicken]

https://www.rospa.com/road-safety/advic ... s-figures/

2015 100 killed
that's not a lot of people killed in a year

 

[al-onestare]

Re:

For me, not wearing a helmet is as foolhardy as not wearing a seat belt or not looking left and right before crossing a road. It's a non negotiable: just wear it.

I've yet to hear a strong enough reason why we shouldn't wear one, so until then I'll carry on keeping my bonce protected.

NB: every fall or crash I've had in the last 10 years has resulted in some sort of head impact and each time the helmet has reduced the severity of the injury, ranging for cuts and bruises to gashes and leaving a great big dent in a car.

 

[Gerard]

Re: Re:

I find it interesting that this subject is so decisive.

I can see the CTC's point and it is a good one, the more we make casual riders or occasional commuters feel they have to wear more and more specialist gear, the more they are inclined to reach for the car keys and that is bad for everyone. I choose to wear a helmet when riding, I didn't when I was a kid, they really weren't available and I rode thousands of miles all over my little bit of North East London, not without injury from time to time. Now helmets are readily and cheaply available and so I wear one and I have always encouraged my kids to do the same.

Would I like it made a legal requirement? Absolutely bl**dy not. Would I prefer people cycle without a helmet than not cycle at all? Yes, of course. Will any debate change my mind about wearing a helmet? I very much doubt it.

Totally agree with this.

One of my partners was killed on his bike in 2010. Taken out by a Nissan Nivara at 60mph. He wasn't wearing a helmet.
Post accident investigations, and at the inquest it was made quite clear that if he had worn a helmet, there was a probability he could have survived; but as a complete vegetable with little or no quality of life. Philip would have hated that.
I didn't ride again until finding this site last August. I used to ride to work every day in London, always with a helmet. I still wear a helmet, feel naked without it, but it is my choice.
I do however try and avoid country roads at all costs, as the drivers seem completely incapable of dealing with cyclists! More dangerous than London in some circumstances (IMHO).

 

[mk one]

Re: Re:

I also ride horses and on a horse you are a lot higher off the ground than you are on almost any bike, you are also working in cooperation with another intelligent life form of independent mind, and so you are always working with an element of unpredictability. It is not a legal requirement to wear a helmet when riding a horse but everyone does it, by choice and I have been grateful for mine on at least one occasion.

I never realised you didnt have to wear helmets on horses, just assumed you did as most do. Can i ask if horse riding helmets are saftey rated and which impacts are they rated for? curious as like i mentioned in another helmet thread i used to work in industrial rope access and the climbing industry for many years, and part of the job was checking the saftey equipment (ppe) so i learnt all about helmets and there uses and limits. Most helmets in sport, including cycling, are designed for impacts from above, not side impacts, and then only to disperse the impact force through the foam, also only at low sprrd. When i was working there was only one helmet that was tested and approved to stop side impact and penetration out of the countless other designs. Any helmet with ventelation, wether holes or slits, can not be fully tested as there are obvious risk areas. Also, as a side note, a lot of helmets and other saftey equipment do not always carry ce marks, it doesnt mean they are less capable than one that does, its usually down to the cost of applying for the ce mark. As far as impacts go, wearing a helmet can prevent greater injury by spreading the load, on the other hand, wearing a helmet increases the chance of adding a rotational force which actually increases the chance of brain damage compared to the equivelent impact without. Someone mentioned broken collorbones, and a lot of broken collorbones are the result of the helet hitting the bone during a crash. Not cycling related but just emphasising the point that helmets can create other problems, which brings me to the point i made earlier about educating people about both sides of the helmet debate. Most naturally assume that wearing a helmet is safer.

Been typing too long now and only just touched on some of the positive and negative points. Going for a rest now

 

[mk one]

Re: Re:

For me, not wearing a helmet is as foolhardy as not wearing a seat belt or not looking left and right before crossing a road. It's a non negotiable: just wear it.

Not trying to dissrespect your opinion and sorry for getting off subject, but i was involved in a car crash once at high speed, the force was that great it just sent the car upwards instead of any other direction. My friend suffered extensive damage both externally and internally, all caused by the seatbelt, whereas i was able to walk away unhurt due to not being restrained, another friend crashed into a security van, they must have thought they were being robbed and wrote both vehicles off, his car was just a scrunched up ball and the only space left inside the car was in the passenger footwell, were luckilly he ended up due to not wearing his belt, otherwise there would be no chance of him being with us now. Incedentlly, they have looked at various ways to secure motorcyclists but found that its not good to be attached to an object that is involved in a collision due to that force being tranfered to the body. Not saying dont wear one just that saftey equipment isnt always safe by default.

 

[NeilM]

Re: Re:

I never realised you didnt have to wear helmets on horses, just assumed you did as most do. Can i ask if horse riding helmets are saftey rated and which impacts are they rated for?

They have to be worn in every type of competition (possibly not in American Quarter Horse comps), but not on the road / while general riding / hacking.

As to the standards, I have just pinched this from the Charles Owen web site: "All riding helmet manufacturers have to produce helmets to meet one of three international safety standards or marks – the PAS015:2011, the VG1 01.040 2014-12 and ASTM F1163:04a – and some may even produce helmets to meet all of them."

I wouldn't ride a horse without a hat on, despite having taken dozens of falls but only hitting my head once. However, that was on a jump wing (the big wooden upright bit), and gave me a real cartoon rockets and starts circling my head moment. When I got home I cut the straps off the helmet and threw it in the bin, job done and £100 well spent.

 

[mk one]

Re: Re:

I never realised you didnt have to wear helmets on horses, just assumed you did as most do. Can i ask if horse riding helmets are saftey rated and which impacts are they rated for?

As to the standards, I have just pinched this from the Charles Owen web site: "All riding helmet manufacturers have to produce helmets to meet one of three international safety standards or marks – the PAS015:2011, the VG1 01.040 2014-12 and ASTM F1163:04a – and some may even produce helmets to meet all of them."


and gave me a real cartoon rockets and starts circling my head moment. When I got home I cut the straps off the helmet and threw it in the bin, job done and £100 well spent.

Thank you, gives me something to read up on later.

if only that actually happened, would liven the place up a bit
But that is a very good point you raised there, i wonder how many people after a crash, and there seem to be a lot on here, actually replace their helmet after a crash, as you should!