Clauld butler vintage frame

lave48

Retro Newbie
Hi

I have a claud butler frame and have looked around on the internet for some time trying to identify it. I think it could be a Torino, Coureur or similar frame made by holdsworth.
Any info on reading the frame number would be useful too, it looks like 24453, but I may be wrong. I have enclosed some pics to help id the frame. I am also looking for decals for it but I am not sure of what I need could any one help me please?
 

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Re:

Re frame number, looks like a 0 in front of 24453 which makes number 024453 and if true bill predicts a Holdsworthy 1980. I agree chrome fork has a non original look - number? Pic of driveside rear dropout is unclear and hanger looks funny - perhaps an add on?. Could it be an economical 5 speed Claud/Holdsworthy Cresta?

Doug
 
Thanks for the replies. The forks were an add on from the midd 80's I have found this link from another post viewtopic.php?f=12&t=352650 which dates it at being produced in 1958 the year Holdsworth took over Claud Butler. I thought 0 on the front of the numbering was a scratch mark do you guys think it would reveal the number to solve the mystery or if I removed the paint would it make matters worse ?
 
A serial number error is a common cause of misguided frame assessment. I think any further discussion re dating of this frame number is difficult without a clear reveal.

Paint job is pretty well shot and frame doesn't appear to be a significant collector item so I see no harm in removing paint. Guess it's a personal decision. Probably the best would be a local chemical stripper with fine steel wool or perhaps trying a plastic card edge so as not to remove or scratch the metal around numbers.

Doug
 
Re:

Hi All

Done what was suggested removed the paint and you guys were right!! There is a zero in front of the number making it 024453 so would it be a Coureur frame? I found a code on the BB it's a L and under it is < 10> Also could you tell me what the decal is on the the seat tube is I can't make it out. Many thanks
 

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Re:

So the number 024453 places the frame as a c. 1980. This definitely narrows the model search. See Dave Scrimshaw's more recent numbers thread: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=362572

The apparent absence of a FD cable guide or stop suggests it was a 5 speed which would point to Cresta. Does it indeed have no FD cable guide/stop?

Water bottle braze-ons and yellow enamel (if original paint) point to a Coureur as you suggest and is described and pictured in catalog. However, at least in 81 catalog, Coureur is advertised as a 12 speed. Coureur came and went over the years and looks like only present in this iteration for 1981 and as no catalog available and serial predicts maybe 1980 as well. (It appears both Cresta and Coureur had same simpler Prugnat lugs, were plain gauge tubing and were most "competitively priced".)
See Kilgariff and catalog pic below. Also maybe you have seen thread re "81" Coureur: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=313402

Not sure what that decal at bottom of seat tube is. The gold decal pictured below was often seen in this era but top shape is different and your decal has letters "ycl" at bottom right. Might suggest it is the retailer's decal? Other decals are available through H Lloyd's.

So... model must be one or other of above. Perhaps better pics of dropouts esp rear drive side and lug work might help. Is seat post size 26.4 to reflect plain gauge tubing? Coureur had "close clearances" with 27" rims - what does frame look like with wheels? What is wheelbase (altho perhaps thrown off by non original fork rake)?

The front fork being replaced suggest a significant collision. Note hole in left seat stay from tire rub. Oh,oh! Also drive side rear dropout seems opened up, distorted? Frame certainly appears to have been "around the block". Wonder what you plan? Might be a good idea to have someone in the know check it out before restoring.

Doug
 

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dear Doug

Thanks for all the info. The frame came to me in the condition you see it with 2 Van Schothorst chrome wheels with malard hubs and a shimano rear derailleur 10 speed. was going to restore it but after the info you gave me it seems a bad idea. I also have a Carlton Continental plus some parts so do you think it's a better idea to restore this and use the Van Schothorst wheels?
 
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