Can anybody identify what model/year this Saracen frame is?

[otherself]

I don't know what model & year this unpainted NOS Saracen frame I've acquired is. Any clues Saracen experts? Or have you owned a similar one? Serial No. has '94' to part of it as well as the the letter T. Has a welded noodle for rear cantilever brake wire, thus indicating before V-Brake frames were the norm; pre-1995'ish I'd pressume?

Size: 17"; headtube 10cm.
Weight: 2080g; double butted chromo...will be around 100g extra when painted (I know Saracen built with Tange tubesets a lot during the 90s).
Seatpost diameter is tighter than the spare 26.8mm I tried, probably a 26.2mm (vernier read 26.3mm).
Front mech clamp size: 28.6mm.
Rear mudguard eyelets and pannier drillings.

 

[drystonepaul]

That's pretty much identical to one I've had from John at Bankrupt-Surplus-Bike Bits on eBay.
It's difficult to tell exactly what frame model it is, other than it's a genuine Saracen frame so Tange tubing is correct and you'd be right with 1993/94 I reckon.
And you'll need a 26.4mm seatpost.

There are a few threads about Saracens including the ones off eBay. Have at look at these...

Early Saracen Lovers Anonymous......
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=40984

Bankrupt saracen frame's.
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57707

Bankrupt bikes on Ebay
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=53354

NOS retro steel Saracen frames
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52207

and perhaps you're best clue/piece of evidence...
1993 Saracen Catalogue
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=54777

Hope this helps

 

[cannondale king]

your frame looks exactly the same as the sahara i built up for the missus she now hates but different story they are cracking frames to build up and ride powder coat white sweet as

 

[cherrybomb]

'93-'94 sounds about right. It's almost identical to my '92 except it's missing the integrated seat clamp of the earlier frames.

EDIT: I notice it's also missing the Saracen script on the drop out that mine has too.

 

[otherself]

Wow, I didn't expect so much info. Some really nice scans in that link. Thanks.

I think it would be too light for a Sahara as they were heavier than 2kg - apparently? But they did have the welded cable noodle for rear canti. I didn't mention that it only has one bottle mount - the Sahara's had two. Example: http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewto ... 642d1ee30f

I noticed on the BBracket serial below the "94" and other numbers theres the suffix "TT", could this stand for the model "Tufftrax"? It could even be a Trekker or Terratrax?

The higher end Saracens (Kili etc) were made from Tange Prestige. I don't know how much Prestige weighs to be exact. Example: a modern Orange list 4.2lbs for their Prestige frame, which is 1.95kg, yet a Kinesis Decade Versa Tange Prestige is 2100g for size 16".

BTW it does have "Saracen" stamped on the rear dropout above the mech hanger .

 

[Pointer]

I have just weighed my Sahara Elite SE (19") from 1993 and it comes in at around 2800g..Not very 'Elite'! It does ride well though. Only the two main tubes were Tange Oversized DB on this frame, the rest being plain gauge.

The extended seat tube ends differently to mine too, I have a brazed on bolt fixing whilst yours is designed for a collar I guess, being a straight cut tube.

For ref the frame number on mine is 0S05 4434. It is 1993, I have owned it from new.

There is a catalogue scan from 1993 on this forum, it may have already been posted on this thread, worth a look. Also if I stripped the incredibly thick epoxy paint from my frame it may well weigh less than yours! (it's really thick)

 

[drystonepaul]

I'm not sure what the frame numbers can actually reveal with these frames. I have two of these 'Bankrupt' frames which I reckon are from 1993 and 1997 respectively.
The 93 frame has all the same features as the unpainted one you've pictured, except it has two sets of bottle bosses and wieghs about 2.5kgs.
The frame number for this one is in three parts .
First line: C06 Second line: 1018 and a: 4 on it's own.
As far as I know there are no Saracen models that begin with a 'C' so I reckon that this stands for something else.

The 97 frame does not have the pierced top tube of earlier Saracens and wieghs about 2.1kgs. It is definately thinner walled and takes a 27mm seatpin. The frame number for this one is: A707002155.

What this forum needs is someone who worked in the Saracen factory and has access to a database with everything there is to know about Saracens.
In the meantime I'm really quite happy with riding mine...

 

[dirtjumper_dmr]

there is no canti stop on this frame as far as I can see... Am I being thick/drunk or what?

 

[dirtjumper_dmr]

I noticed on the BBracket serial below the "94" and other numbers theres the suffix "TT", could this stand for the model "Tufftrax"? It could even be a Trekker or Terratrax?
quote]

Looks very similar to my old Terratrax, which was a 96/97. That frame had a seat stay mounted cable stop (extended from one seat stay and not joined to the other) h for cantilever brakes though... IIRC

 

[cherrybomb]

there is no canti stop on this frame as far as I can see... Am I being thick/drunk or what?

It doesn't need one. The inner cable just goes through the noodle brazed to the side of seat tube and then straight to the canti.