Breivik Trial Spoiler Alert

[ajm]

I would hate to use a pejorative term regarding mental health issues, but as he has been certified 'sane' let me say he is fruit loops to the moon and back.

He's quite sane (if perhaps more coldly logical than most) and holds the same beliefs as many neo-Darwinist academics who are happy to spout from their ivory towers on eugenics and culling and "improving" the human population but (thankfully) haven't actually got the guts to put their hateful ideas into practice.

They are certainly partially responsible for this and a few other similar atrocities, but their part will be conveniently ignored by the media, as always.

 

[silverclaws]

The Scandinavians are a different kind of people to us they live in a society less stressed than us and so are not familiar to the knee jerk reactions that we do

Interested to know what this is based on?

I dunno really, just a perception whilst living for a while in Sweden, as let's face it, they don't have the problems we have with over population for what services are available, no problems with housing and they dance to the beat of their own drum being out of the EEC and are wealthy with oil production. Taxation I understand is high, higher than here, but they actually get something for it other than excuses and downright lies. As to what else is happening there, I suspect they have much the same problems as us with the rebellious questioning youth, and they are subject to immigration but perhaps not to the extent as us here. Oh yeah and booze is pricey, maybe that is a factor, it's cost being prohibitive to many booze related issues are few or go on unreported.

As to racist issues, well Breivik is reported to have said he was mentored by a racist from Britain, so could it be he was just a fire starter looking for a fire to cause ?

 

[highlandsflyer]

How long ago were you living there?

I am interested to hear your views, they echo the views I had before living in Denmark, unfortunately my experience was very enlightening. There was a deeply nationalistic vibe amongst the general population. That was generally cool and more to do with standing up for themselves as a nation post war, but racism sat very comfortably in that environment.

It is always a tricky path, healthy nationalism can be so easily exploited.

Scapegoats, as most immigrants become as soon as they arrive anywhere, are merely that of course.

The fact that the immigrants might stand up and criticise the state or protest against it should be celebrated as an indication of a healthily liberal society, but is so often seen as undermining and out of place.

In 90s Denmark, God help you were you an immigrant and chose to complain about the way you were treated.

 

[silverclaws]

I was in Sweden for a year five years ago, trying to find my way in a new country as a possible place to live. My father still lives there, married to a Swede, right in the middle of the country, Orebro and I get fed updates on what is happening there and things I understand are changing, ghettos of foreign immigrants are starting to be built. Now I understand from what has happened in this country, Britain, ghettos are the wrong idea as it prevents immigrants from integrating into the society they chose to move into. Sure immigrants wish to feel comfortable amongst their own countrymen or even religious belief, we do t when we move abroad but an unwillingness to integrate with the host country kind of questions why they went to that country. But ghettos being created impacts on the indigenous and so resentment grows and there will be a flashpoint, it is inevitable.

I have also spent about six months in Danmark, the Scanderborg region and at the time immigrants were welcomed with open arms, how it is now, I have no idea as I have lost contact with that part of the family, but that time there was ten years ago.

Now I understand resentment comes when the indigenous feel the pinch, their living standards start to decline for with humanity someone must always be to blame and as it is in Europe the immigrant is always in the news, guess who gets the focus of attention, even if it is they are but a scapegoat for other influences and politics at work.

But of the immigrant, try putting yourself in their shoes and think how they must think given what faces them, not an easy task for them or for us, the first generation if they get on the right track will be fraught with difficulty. But in this country, we have to remember our history dictates, Britain is made up of an immigrant nation.

 

[Groundoggy]

I don't know if I am more offended as an American NRA member or as a Norwegian after reading some of these comments.

Because an organization exists to ensure sporstsmen and hunters do not get their right to bear arms taken away by liberals who want to be the world's parents the entire nation is somehow tainted? I'm more offended by our current President who decided to run guns to Mexican drug cartels without the knowledge of the Mexican government and with NO effort made to track the guns. Hundreds of Mexicans are dead at the hands of these guns, as well as many innocents and law enforcement. This was done to create border violence/death that would be used to further restrict gun rights. That is why we NEED the NRA. (we also need a media that isn't willing to cover up said scandal by refusing to properly report on it)

And Judging Norwegians by how Swedes live (they all look alike to you I suppose)? We HATE Swedes (not 'war hate' but we make jokes about them). That's like stereotyping Brits based on what the IRA has done.

Breivik's actions are either those of a crazy person or an evil person. He drew inspiration from al-Qaeda by attacking innocents to inflict the most psychological damage and inspire others.

To be honest I think he has a point about 'multi culturalism'. Most immigrants may bring their traditions from the old country and I think that is a wonderful thing (pride in your heritage) - but some muslims seek to bring Sharia law with them and there is often a failure to integrate into a new society that other cultures don't bring.

His perceived 'war on Christianity' is real to some extent. Insults of Christ and Christians by those who look down on religion in general have become more commonplace. Christians have come to be made the butt of an ongoing joke by the media and pop culture. Christians don't generally get violent in response (Breivik did). If you insult Islam there are riots and people usually die. The Christian mockers don't insult Islam generally and they would probably call you a racist if you did.

There is a culture war going on as air travel, the internet and commerce have brought economies and cultures closer together. Western cultures and values clash with radical Islam and radical Islam's response cannot be dismissed as a problem. Neither should radical Christians, Socialists, Nazi's, Buddhists, Amish or whatever when it happens.

I do think it is worth noting that although he says he is a 'militant Christian' he doesn't appear to say he acted in Christ's name or because the teachings of the Bible compelled him to act. He claims to be responding to a perceived war on Christianity and against multi-culturalism. Christianity did not motivate him to act as he did and he claimed to be 'only a little religious'.

Breivik was either a troubled a-hole filled with hate or he snapped. Maybe a bit of both. He isn't remorseful so it wasn't temporary insanity. How you can't have remorse for shooting innocent kids is beyond me.

 

[silverclaws]

Many people through history have claimed religion to be the motivator for their unkind action on others, the question is, is religion just a tool to use to enact hatred on another group, if so what is the point of religion beyond control of others

And with that I do believe religion if we don't get to grips with it as an logical device of war it will be the destruction of us all.

Sweden and their interest in guns, many have said is comparable with the American mid west, even the countryside is similar at least it was where in that country I first live, the Askersund region at the head of Lake Vattern