Black Friday

[EggyBum6969]

Blag Friday

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1 ... 0772445448

 

[technodup]

Re: Re:

Thing is, the last tablet I bought was a cheap, Tesco HUDL refurb from ebay.

So by all means, claim that as a victory for marketing and advertising, but in that instance, at least, I'm really not seeing it. It's not like I regularly visit an actual Tesco store, or use their website, apart from very occasionally, so I'm just not really getting how the forces of true evil managed to manipulate me into that decision.

Product? Check
Price? Check
Place? Check

A product which fitted your needs, was available at the price you thought fair and in the marketplace you like to use. Plus I bet you read something in the news when they launched it- it would have been be difficult not to. Marketing in motion.

It's much more nuanced than simply sticking a billboard in front of you. Although that plays its part too.

Funny thing is you've actually been suckered in twice without you even realising it. For not only did you know you wanted a Tesco tablet, you knew Ebay was the place to get it. Which is a second multinational in about your subconscious to such an extent that whilst you think you're in control, actually they (or another) are influencing every move you make.

It is literally impossible to avoid the forces of marketing. You are in denial.

 

[The History Man]

Denial

 

[Neil]

Re: Re:

Thing is, the last tablet I bought was a cheap, Tesco HUDL refurb from ebay.

So by all means, claim that as a victory for marketing and advertising, but in that instance, at least, I'm really not seeing it. It's not like I regularly visit an actual Tesco store, or use their website, apart from very occasionally, so I'm just not really getting how the forces of true evil managed to manipulate me into that decision.

Product? Check
Price? Check
Place? Check

A product which fitted your needs, was available at the price you thought fair and in the marketplace you like to use. Plus I bet you read something in the news when they launched it- it would have been be difficult not to. Marketing in motion.

It's much more nuanced than simply sticking a billboard in front of you. Although that plays its part too.

Funny thing is you've actually been suckered in twice without you even realising it. For not only did you know you wanted a Tesco tablet, you knew Ebay was the place to get it. Which is a second multinational in about your subconscious to such an extent that whilst you think you're in control, actually they (or another) are influencing every move you make.

It is literally impossible to avoid the forces of marketing. You are in denial.

I'm far from being in denial.

I've seen plenty of adverts of tablets on TV, or in magazines. I didn't choose any that were prominently advertised. Not deliberately - it wasn't some overt decision to reject the dark side of the force.

It's not so much I wanted a Tesco tablet. I was getting fed-up with how my old tablet was performing with a few websites and gmail. And family have them already and have been OK with them. And in terms of the "vendor" being ebay, it was actually Tesco's ebay outlet selling the refurbs, and that meant it still had a full 12 month warranty. I had no product loyalty - had there been some other equivalent tablet, with the same / similar spec and features, for the price, I'd have quite possibly chosen something else.

But then spec, and value for money matter much more to me than plenty of other normal factors, like brand. For me, decent screen, decent amount of storage, chipset, HDMI out, memory card slot and USB OTG are typically things I'm looking for. I'm much more likely to be influenced on spec and capabilities than make or any marketing spiel - but then I work with tech for a living.

I think you overplay the amount you assume all are influenced. Some people are truly influenced - they read some good reviews, decide they'd like something new, and nip to Currys to buy one - I know plenty that do. And there's nothing that wrong with it really - they get what they want, and seem happy with it.

The tablet I bought previously (some times back), I certainly didn't buy it based on reviews, I bought one because I was looking for something with decent capacity (more than other factors), security, decent screen, and decent build quality, and they'd radically HAD TO drop the price on them. As to the vendor I bought that from, I could have chosen several, in the end, I opted for the one with the best price and convenience (in terms of delivery options) - I'm about as loyal to companies as Rongo the dog is to his "owner".

You can try all this butterfly effect, and everything has some tenuous cause, but it's awfully fecking thin, based on some hand-wavey power of assertion.

Whenever somebody tries to tell me how clever they are in relation to me, and how I'm suckered by their rhetoric (or that of their discipline or industry) I tend to smile inwardly, and let them carry on - because they've said so for a reason. And partly that reason is because they want / need it to be true, and partly because they want to tell me that.

How smart can it be, if you've got to try and persuade me that you / your profession is oh, so clever.

The reality is, marketing is mildly interesting, but hardly scientific or grounded in empiricism - it's informed inferences based on stats. The cleverness is overplayed - but deliberately, for a reason. It's really just a bit savvy of managing to influence the masses - not exactly the most discerning demographic, then - but plays the percentages.

Save the spiel for your customers - they'll buy it. I'll file it..

 

[technodup]

Re: Re:

It is literally impossible to avoid the forces of marketing. You are in denial.

I'm far from being in denial.

I've seen plenty of adverts of tablets on TV, or in magazines. I didn't choose any that were prominently advertised.

Marketing and advertising are not the same.

And in terms of the "vendor" being ebay, it was actually Tesco's ebay outlet selling the refurbs, and that meant it still had a full 12 month warranty. I had no product loyalty

You had loyalty to Ebay. And presumably Paypal.

But then spec, and value for money matter much more to me than plenty of other normal factors, like brand.

Again, I didn't mention anything about brand. And if you don't see spec and VFM as normal purchase considerations I'm wasting my time here.

For me, decent screen, decent amount of storage, chipset, HDMI out, memory card slot and USB OTG are typically things I'm looking for. I'm much more likely to be influenced on spec and capabilities than make or any marketing spiel - but then I work with tech for a living.

A key stage of marketing is creating something the market wants to buy. The clue is in the name, and in this case any number of tablets have done just that. Remember this is a product which didn't exist a few years ago. Now you want one. And spec is marketing 'spiel' ffs.

I think you overplay the amount you assume all are influenced. Some people are truly influenced

For sure, the average Apple fanboy is more brand loyal than you (or I), but that doesn't mean you haven't been influenced. You're thinking about not being seduced by advertising whereas I'm pointing out the very fact you want a tablet means you have been influenced.

As to the vendor I bought that from, I could have chosen several, in the end, I opted for the one with the best price and convenience (in terms of delivery options)

Again, marketing. You think the best price and convenience happened by accident? Are you arguing with yourself here?

Whenever somebody tries to tell me how clever they are in relation to me, and how I'm suckered by their rhetoric (or that of their discipline or industry) I tend to smile inwardly, and let them carry on - because they've said so for a reason. And partly that reason is because they want / need it to be true, and partly because they want to tell me that.

How smart can it be, if you've got to try and persuade me that you / your profession is oh, so clever.

I said nothing about cleverness. Your tone suggests it's you who thinks you are smarter than to be influenced by tawdry marketing execs when all the evidence points to the contrary.

The reality is, marketing is mildly interesting, but hardly scientific or grounded in empiricism - it's informed inferences based on stats. The cleverness is overplayed - but deliberately, for a reason. It's really just a bit savvy of managing to influence the masses - not exactly the most discerning demographic, then - but plays the percentages.

Eh? Luxury brands spend a fortune on marketing but aren't aiming at the masses so how does that work then? Or should IWC, Bugatti, Alexander McQueen et al check with you where they're going wrong?

Bottom line is people buy things for different reasons. They attach different values to factors such as quality, price, speed, convenience, spec etc. But I assure you all these considerations have at one point been written on a whiteboard in that company's product development/marketing division.

 

[Neil]

Re: Re:

And in terms of the "vendor" being ebay, it was actually Tesco's ebay outlet selling the refurbs, and that meant it still had a full 12 month warranty. I had no product loyalty

You had loyalty to Ebay. And presumably Paypal.

Eh - are you mad?

Loyalty? Ebay, and paypal?

I'd have not thought twice if they were selling it from another outlet - eg Amazon - with similar buyer and payment protection...

That's not brand loyalty, nor being influenced by marketing. That's simply recognising I'm much more likely to have a more trustworthy transaction, with recourse, if need be - based on the fact that I've been able to avail myself of buyer protection and recourse in the past - not merely based on trusting their marketing inspired words.

But then spec, and value for money matter much more to me than plenty of other normal factors, like brand.

Again, I didn't mention anything about brand. And if you don't see spec and VFM as normal purchase considerations I'm wasting my time here.

I do see spec and VFM as normal purchase considerations - for me - point being not everybody is so focused on spec - nor even VFM. Some people like to pay more for certain things, because they believe that in doing so means they're getting something superior. Some people aren't particularly that bothered about spec, since some don't really understand it much (and that's not pejorative, just being accurate - some people don't know and don't care about the spec of some things they buy - they trust in other things - like recommendations, big names / brands, or products they've heard of).

Look at the threads on here, when somebody is interested in a tablet - some people couldn't care less about things like HDMI out, memory card slot, USB OTG - they may be more influenced by brand perception - and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that - because the details that some of us obsess over are irrelevant to others.

Marketing doesn't influence my interest in spec... MY purchase rationale does. If I want a device to have HDMI out, it's not because I've seen some advert, or video of somebody hooking up their tablet like that and using it as a media player, it's not because somebody is making a device with that feature - it's because I've found need / use for the feature.

Now you'll claim that's a triumph of marketing. But if I was truly influenced by marketing I'd have had countless iPhones and iPads, or Samsung tablets.

Spec is probably the biggest criteria with many things I buy - whereas brand typically matters little to me.

Here's the thing, though - people like you are very much playing the heads I win, tails you lose game - that whatever criteria people use to buy something, is purely and only because of marketing. Which, to be frank, is rather over-selling it a bit - but I can understand why you would. If it's brand that people follow - that's marketing, if it's spec - that's marketing, if it's how it brings out the highlights in people's hair - that's marketing, if it reminds them of their dead aunt from Australia - that's marketing.

Landing on the moon? Marketing. JFK's assination? Marketing. Grass being green? Marketing. Cerulean blue? Marketing. Scientology? Marketing.

Actually, that last one...

Look at the recent thread about smartwatches on here - I was pointing out, they'll probably prevail precisely because of marketing - not any true need, but a seeding of the market - yes, largely, just like what was done with tablets some years back.

For myself, the touted "advantages" of smartwatches aren't particularly convincing to me, not that I have anything against pointless tech, just that I want more, or different things than they'll offer, and I'm not about to abandon things I place stock in, because there's some saying how they're going to revolutionise the world, stop world hunger, trigger world peace (couldn't resist...) and make us all want a Coke and a smile.

For me, decent screen, decent amount of storage, chipset, HDMI out, memory card slot and USB OTG are typically things I'm looking for. I'm much more likely to be influenced on spec and capabilities than make or any marketing spiel - but then I work with tech for a living.

A key stage of marketing is creating something the market wants to buy. The clue is in the name, and in this case any number of tablets have done just that. Remember this is a product which didn't exist a few years ago. Now you want one. And spec is marketing 'spiel' ffs.

Listening to somebody from marketing, and they'd try and convince you they invented the wheel. That everything we say, do, choose, buy, wipe our arses with, is by their own dirty hands.

Spec was around long before failed car salesmen got their greasy hands on it.

I think you overplay the amount you assume all are influenced. Some people are truly influenced

For sure, the average Apple fanboy is more brand loyal than you (or I), but that doesn't mean you haven't been influenced. You're thinking about not being seduced by advertising whereas I'm pointing out the very fact you want a tablet means you have been influenced.

I've been influenced by the availability of a product, and the advantages it held for me - and for me, that was still being able to do stuff on the internet without having to sit at a PC or laptop, plus being able to watch video.

Truth be told, when I first bought one, I was very skeptical about need - and even then called them as a solution looking for a problem. But then not everything I buy is purely because of need to actually use the device purely for leisure interests - I do tech work. So being able to understand tablet (and other devices) understand the OS, download the Android SDK, and be reasonably happy with farting around with them is of value.

As to the vendor I bought that from, I could have chosen several, in the end, I opted for the one with the best price and convenience (in terms of delivery options)

Again, marketing. You think the best price and convenience happened by accident? Are you arguing with yourself here?

I think you would like to claim everything everybody does, is down to marketing. Now I won't deny that plenty of things we make purchase choices on, can and often are, influenced by marketing - but not necesarily instigated or driven.

Sorry to break it to you - I know you guys like to think you're terribly intelligent, Machiavellian, capable of jedi-esque mind control - but really, it's not quite as all-encompassing evil as you'd play out.

A trite cliche that's stood me well in life: never ascribe to malice, what could be explained as incompetence.

Whenever somebody tries to tell me how clever they are in relation to me, and how I'm suckered by their rhetoric (or that of their discipline or industry) I tend to smile inwardly, and let them carry on - because they've said so for a reason. And partly that reason is because they want / need it to be true, and partly because they want to tell me that.

How smart can it be, if you've got to try and persuade me that you / your profession is oh, so clever.

I said nothing about cleverness. Your tone suggests it's you who thinks you are smarter than to be influenced by tawdry marketing execs when all the evidence points to the contrary.

Whilst you may not have actually used the word "cleverness", tomayto / tomato... you actually said:-

I love the way people claim not to be affected by marketing or advertising. It's always a lie. The fact they believe it just makes it even better, and proves that us marketing people are always many steps ahead of the proles.

Which is what I was alluding to.

And you can think what you like about whether you still believe the dastardly, nefarious, yet curiously brilliant marketing guys are suckering this poor, inept consumer if you like - it's all the same to me. One thing I learnt in life, a couple of decades back, when I had a part-time job doing something where many assume you don't have much going on upstairs (in that instance, gym instructor), is that people are much more interesting when they assume you're stupid, as opposed to assuming you have intelligence.

Now you can backpedal a little if you like, and tell me that wasn't an assertion of intellectual superiority over the masses - but I'm sorry to tell you - and I've met a few people from marketing in my time - they're simply not steely-eyed-missile-men as you'd apparently like to suggest - there's about a typical range of fvckwits, mediocrity, and smarts.

For myself, I couldn't care less whether you tell me that you're more intelligent than me. If you do, or try to hint it (as you did with the comment I quoted) it may slightly raise my eyebrow as a modest point of interest, but for all I know you may well be yay more intelligent than me - I hope you are, given your claims of how pervasive the true evil of marketing really is.

Otherwise, I think I'd be a bit deflated - for at least, say 10 seconds. Then cat, laser pointer.

The reality is, marketing is mildly interesting, but hardly scientific or grounded in empiricism - it's informed inferences based on stats. The cleverness is overplayed - but deliberately, for a reason. It's really just a bit savvy of managing to influence the masses - not exactly the most discerning demographic, then - but plays the percentages.

Eh? Luxury brands spend a fortune on marketing but aren't aiming at the masses so how does that work then? Or should IWC, Bugatti, Alexander McQueen et al check with you where they're going wrong?

So just because the masses can't all afford Rolexes, Bugattis, blinged out Bentleys, or other accoutrements of the rich and shameless, it doesn't influence them, nor do they want to create this aura of aspiration?

Just for a second, think about the market for fake goods, and why. To say nothing of the cult of celebrity.

Bottom line is people buy things for different reasons. They attach different values to factors such as quality, price, speed, convenience, spec etc. But I assure you all these considerations have at one point been written on a whiteboard in that company's product development/marketing division.

I'd very much hope so, too.

If not, they'd be incompetent - and surely marketing people couldn't possibly be incompetent.

Just because they've been written on a white-board, though, doesn't necessarily mean they've been able to brainwash people. Which is what happens with a lot of pseudo science, these days. So often, correlation is conflated with causation.

 

[EggyBum6969]

neil have you heard of a book called the chimp paradox

it was written by Prof Steve Peters who is a consultant psychiatrist and the resident
psychiatrist with Sky ProCycling team and team gb

i would reccomend you read this book it helped me control my stress
and even if you dont like the rest of the book the parts about dealing with stress are worth every penny

its a hard book to read from start to finish
an the other 3 people i know who have this book gave up reading it
a 1/4 way in or less, and unlike me they are still failing to deal with there
stress an often react to things badly an vent there stress on others

your a smarter chap then me so i think it would be a good thing for you to read
an anyone else whos intrested

 

[videojetman]

I find a good old bike ride helps me when I get stressed.
As for marketing I bought into the Apple iPad and have never looked back.
there's no shame in admitting that the ad man has done a great job.
I actually find some of the ads a lot more entertaining than the crap you see on t.v.
I actually think if some of us could meet face to face we would see things a little differently.
We can't totally judge a person by how eloquently they write, or how poorly their grammar is.
im sure most of the people who come here are great individuals.
We see things differently when we aren't sat in front of a computer.

 

[technodup]

Re: Re:

And in terms of the "vendor" being ebay, it was actually Tesco's ebay outlet selling the refurbs, and that meant it still had a full 12 month warranty. I had no product loyalty

You had loyalty to Ebay. And presumably Paypal.

Eh - are you mad?

Loyalty? Ebay, and paypal?

I'd have not thought twice if they were selling it from another outlet - eg Amazon - with similar buyer and payment protection...

That's not brand loyalty, nor being influenced by marketing. That's simply recognising I'm much more likely to have a more trustworthy transaction, with recourse, if need be - based on the fact that I've been able to avail myself of buyer protection and recourse in the past - not merely based on trusting their marketing inspired words.

No, because Tesco, Ebay and now Amazon know nothing about their customers and how to attract and retain them. Would you have been so happy to use cheeptabletsfromchina.com?

Marketing doesn't influence my interest in spec... MY purchase rationale does. If I want a device to have HDMI out, it's not because I've seen some advert, or video of somebody hooking up their tablet like that and using it as a media player, it's not because somebody is making a device with that feature - it's because I've found need / use for the feature.

Now you'll claim that's a triumph of marketing. But if I was truly influenced by marketing I'd have had countless iPhones and iPads, or Samsung tablets.

Spec is probably the biggest criteria with many things I buy - whereas brand typically matters little to me.

Again you're confusing advertising and brand with marketing. A 50" TV in black and white wouldn't sell today regardless of the strength of advertising. Spec is integral to the offer.

Look at the recent thread about smartwatches on here - I was pointing out, they'll probably prevail precisely because of marketing - not any true need, but a seeding of the market - yes, largely, just like what was done with tablets some years back.

You mean the marketing of a tablet to solve a problem nobody knew they had, resulting in you buying one? Precisely the point I've been making?

Spec was around long before failed car salesmen got their greasy hands on it.

And again. Go and read some Philip Kotler and see if he can educate you better than I'm doing.

I neither know nor care if I am more intelligent than you. What is clear is I know more about the subject at hand. I studied it for three years at university, continually read case studies and the work I do with businesses changes the way customers behave and makes them more money.

You are just waffling to reinforce your view that you are above such 'underhand' tactics, without fooling anyone.

 

[FluffyChicken]

Re:

There is a reason the Hudl sold in droves and not just because its easy to get ho!d of, in fact they advertise Samsung and Apple more and have better 'direct' placement in their shops.

The Hudls are aimed at the market that wants a cheap decent tablet with a few bells and wistles. Purely and utterly marketed at families and people like you.
And that's why its sold well.

Yes there are others you could have bought but they just happened to given you the right adverts (word of mouth from friends and families, I.e. you've seen them and liked them. Then they marketed it to you at the right price. Ok so you got it at a bargain price, maybe even cost. But that is now cheap word of mouth advertising for them.

Win win and yes they even market fruit and veg, bread and milk.

Bugger isn't it.