Bike pricing disparity.

Re: Bike pricing rant.

dyna-ti":231gswdb said:
This is a bloody rant about the price of bikes nowadays :evil:

Im in the market for an Ebike, and the price of the range im looking at is going to be about £4 1/2K.
A full suspension, maybe hybrid- eg Scott axis evo. = £4699

Last night im reading on of the trade tool catalogues from a company called Axminster Tools and machinery, probably familiar to some on here.

So im looking at the things I would always liked to have afforded, but never could, and looking at them is just a pipe dream.
But its the prices for what is trade/industrial machinery, that you would expect to see in a professional joiners or cabinetmakers, and be damned happy to own such capable kit.
Example Axminster AT254ps16 panel saw. WOW thats nice, especially compared to my own Axminster saw which cost £650 complete, the clear difference between hobby and trade. Cost of this panel saw - £2999 and will do anything you throw at it for decades to come. Or a woodworking combination machine, which combines 4 or 5 machines in one for use in a space like a big garage or workshop which is again £3000, and you couple to it a £1200 trade rated dust extractor, and even the last joiners I worked for didnt have anything like that level of extractor. Very nice kit indeed, and also going to give decades of service used daily.
Or anything, biggest bandsaw, saw bench or well pretty much anything they sell, a few industrial items aside.

So Im looking at the Scott Emtb/hybrid.
...and thinking £4 1/2K, you're fking kidding me :?

I cannot compare them against a professional saw or spindle moulder or planer thicknesser weighing 350-400kg cast iron, all the attachments you could get foro it.

Bikes have been around a long time,and for a long time the technology to build them has been in place and developed. This isnt new, or some mysterious art form that a scant few highly trained individuals can perform, this is welding alloy tubes together, or into box form and welding that onto some other tubes.

To build a frame for an Ebike - 100 quid worth of alloy plus labour :? Its not titanium, its not carbon fiber its mostly readily available aluminum and most of the time its a robotic welder jointing it all together, with a skilled welder doing some of the work, and i say skilled, but every welder is a skilled welded, "Skill"

The parts to complete it are for the most part long in use -wheels, brakes, gears and in these categories those components are mass produced, not crafted by an individual artisan.
Today its electric motors, mainly from companies who have been making electric motors also for a long time, and those that dont, Shimano for example arent starting from scratch, the designs are already there, and it takes little to adapt or shape them, but the internals are 90% the same.
I can understand batteries are new, but that new :? I think not, again adapted technology, so why the £500-600 price. It is gold, platinum and diamonds hidden inside that plastic casing :?

I just cant see how they can justify these prices, not at all. ~Not one iota.


The costs aren't so black and white as just having to pay for a few tubes of metal though,

The factory where they are made i imagine cost a few quid, the machines as you pointed out just for a wood saw, never mind an industrial CNC machine, would cost another couple of quid, the robot you speak of which just welds the tubes, god knows where you would even get one of them from, i should imagine is another dent in their pocket, the testing equipment and process probably a few more quid. Then they are stuck with a load of frames no one knows even exist, until they pay a couple more quid for worldwide advertising and sponsorship. Of course, the people who run the business, from the board down to the guy who sweeps up probably get payed too. It all adds up, and if they were only making a meager profit then they would have to sell a hell of a lot of bikes to pay for all that, that's also assuming no other outlay, as in nothing breaks, or the minimum wage goes up for example.
 
Re: Bike pricing rant.

legrandefromage":35eiqe9u said:
...which is missing the point entirely as the discussion is the discussion of electric bicycles and not the discussion of old bicycles which is discussed widely elsewhere on the site

At least Bosch are trying to make their products upgradeable unlike the Specialized which uses its own motor.

https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/service/ ... mwQAvD_BwE

It was the OP that introduced the P7 as a discussion within the topic but completely ignored the facts regarding business costs to develop and build ebikes.

To be fair , I’ve looked at ebikes before ( not because I’m buying one) and thought they looked decent value for what you are getting compared to any high end mechanical push iron.
 
Re: Bike pricing rant.

I try to avoid comparing 'old' and 'new', it usually descends into a slanging match - old bikes are old bikes, new bikes are new bikes and theres little in common anymore.
 
Re: Bike pricing rant.

dyna-ti":2uxtw1tb said:
Orange P7 frame.
Original cost up until maybe 8 years ago -£350
Today its £600

Felt the weight of one ?. I bought one of these 2nd hand and was waiting excitedly for it to arrive having had a clockwork all those years.
Pulling it out of the box i was very disappointed by the fact it seemed to weigh twice as much.

A mid range P7 bitd, with LX and XT rear mech and a judy i think was £700, Today it is £2200.

I’ve also had a modern P7 and it weighed a ton but was huge fun. Weight is a terrible gauge of how good a mtb is these days. Don’t ask me why, it’s witchcraft.

I agree that the price of a sorted steel frame went from £350 to £600 in one go a few years back. It was around the time the pound tanked. Group sets shot up at the same time.

As for electric, without a doubt manufactures are taking the pee, by a vast sum but they sell more than they can make so don’t expect it to change. My mate was a early adopter years back with a Haibike, before they became popular and his Fox 36 equipped enduro thing was half the price those quoted above go for now.
 
Re: Bike pricing rant.

@MK One.
£4500 hardtail- sus being a suntour fork, coil at that weighing 3kg, formula hubbed wheels, alcera brakes
Or option b, a Fox 34, also for £4500, along with a fox air shock, shimano deore brakes, and a syncros dropper, DT swiss wheels too. Sorry you are saying one or the other and the profit would be the same.
Sorry, disagree ;)

It was the OP that introduced the P7 as a discussion within the topic but completely ignored the facts regarding business costs to develop and build ebikes.

Give me a chance to answer :roll:

Robotic welder - $10,000-$15000
Just in case you're in the market. How many do you think this does in 24h
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1hd2GZQxWs[/youtube]
https://www.nortechengineering.co.uk/robotic-welding
 
Re: Bike pricing rant.

And this, surely, is why we go 'retro'?
A decent steel frame for well under a ton if that's all you can afford and happy days.
This ebike thing kettles my swede. Get a f**king motorbike.
 
Re: Bike pricing rant.

dyna-ti":2a32drri said:
@MK One.
£4500 hardtail- sus being a suntour fork, coil at that weighing 3kg, formula hubbed wheels, alcera brakes
Or option b, a Fox 34, also for £4500, along with a fox air shock, shimano deore brakes, and a syncros dropper, DT swiss wheels too. Sorry you are saying one or the other and the profit would be the same.
Sorry, disagree ;)

Robotic welder - $10,000-$15000
Just in case you're in the market. How many do you think this does in 24h
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1hd2GZQxWs[/youtube]
https://www.nortechengineering.co.uk/robotic-welding

The irony being that the robotic welder probably costs less and has more technological complexity than the bikes it is building.
 
Re: Bike pricing rant.

It was the OP that introduced the P7 as a discussion within the topic
In reply ;)

but completely ignored the facts regarding business costs to develop and build ebikes.
Maybe because it made as much sense as a chocolate teapot.(no offence ) and you didnt even give me a chance to answer, which i did.

Comparing the cost of the entire factory against the product of another, and completely disregarding the fact there are TWO companies, each with cnc, and pay and yes even a bloke to sweep up.
But the cost is between TWO BIKES, not playing one product off against the company outlay, which will be a great deal.
But if you really want to use that as the comparison, then explain why one company is making more than the other, given the spec is so vastly different

Then to compare the cost of ANY factory against the cost of the PRODUCT is more chocolate teapot realm.
How much is a packet of polo mints against the cost of forming General Motors?. Heavens sake, did you think that one through :?

I also compared the cost of a woodworking machine, against the cost of the product THE BICYCLE, against that silliness of what the company cost to set up and run. Again, the comparison there if that is the point youve taken from the question, would be the cost to set up and run EACH of the companies and compare those. When the question was about their products price structure.

Quite remarkable :facepalm: :roll:
 
Re:

I think you missed the point entirely.

The bit I always find remarkable is when people complain about the price of a product.

Heaven forbid you went down the route of luxury watches, cars , clothes , holidays , and a million other things that on the face of it aren’t worth their price.
 
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