Bernard Carré, Full French,70's, final pics p4, 18.48 lb !

Rapparee

Dirt Disciple
Re: Bernard Carré, Anatomy of a Full French,70's, weightweeniish

Regarding earlier post,found this pic on flickr

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sfleming/ ... otostream/


Cant see if the actual CLB name is on them,wasnt unusual for products to be licenced around then.
Mavic and Simplex must have had trouble making brakes around that time?

Sean Kelly's Mavic groupset that he used with Skil around '84 and later with KAS had Modolo (Italian?) brakes, but Mavic put their own name on them, as did Renault-elf in '83 with which Lemond won his first world title on, but with a Simplex groupset on otherwise.
Though it may have been Mavic throughout, I dont have a picture to hand and Ive gone down memory lane too far tonight as it is, but from memory Im reasonably sure it was Simplex that year.

You can see the brakes on Kelly's bike in the flickr pic. Look really good too.

Modolo also sold the brakesets under their own name until the late 1980's. (The 'Mavic' brakes that is,not the CLB's)
 

torqueless

Senior Retro Guru
Re:

Better bump the seventies before they disappear off the listings into archive oblivion!

Proof you can build a top 70's machine without going near Campag., Shimano, groupsets, or even Reynolds or Columbus.

Some of this French stuff was kind of not obviously available in the UK back then, at least in my area, or, anyone with the funds for high-end stuff just went Campag. Some testers would of course go out of their way to source extra-light stuff from anywhere. Usually though, cockpits were always Cinelli or TTT. You might see testers and tourists with TA/Stronglight chainsets, but I don't remember ever seeing a Stronglight 105 anywhere. Same with Simplex, the cheaper delrin model was ubiquitous, but you'd never see SLJ. Mafac brakes, but never Competition or 2000. I used to save up my paper-round money and buy this stuff, when I could find it- a pair of SLJ derailleurs for twenty quid, the retrofriction levers a bit later for seven quid. Mafac 2000 brakes fifteen quid. That was a **** of a lot of papers. At that time Campag NR gears/brakes/chainset were about fifty/sixty quid each.

Anyway, that's probably enough reminiscing from me...


So, bduc, 100% French? You tempt us to find some soupcon of non-Gallic on this bike.. the only possible contender I can think of is the spokes- 72 of 'em. Getting to 18 1/2 pounds whilst keeping 72 spokes is good going.. I think. I hope you overtake the carbonistas up the cols..
 

bduc61

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torqueless":qel1tghv said:
Better bump the seventies before they disappear off the listings into archive oblivion!

Proof you can build a top 70's machine without going near Campag., Shimano, groupsets, or even Reynolds or Columbus.

Some of this French stuff was kind of not obviously available in the UK back then, at least in my area, or, anyone with the funds for high-end stuff just went Campag. Some testers would of course go out of their way to source extra-light stuff from anywhere. Usually though, cockpits were always Cinelli or TTT. You might see testers and tourists with TA/Stronglight chainsets, but I don't remember ever seeing a Stronglight 105 anywhere. Same with Simplex, the cheaper delrin model was ubiquitous, but you'd never see SLJ. Mafac brakes, but never Competition or 2000. I used to save up my paper-round money and buy this stuff, when I could find it- a pair of SLJ derailleurs for twenty quid, the retrofriction levers a bit later for seven quid. Mafac 2000 brakes fifteen quid. That was a f**k of a lot of papers. At that time Campag NR gears/brakes/chainset were about fifty/sixty quid each.

Anyway, that's probably enough reminiscing from me...


So, bduc, 100% French? You tempt us to find some soupcon of non-Gallic on this bike.. the only possible contender I can think of is the spokes- 72 of 'em. Getting to 18 1/2 pounds whilst keeping 72 spokes is good going.. I think. I hope you overtake the carbonistas up the cols..


Its true that Campa was horrendously expensive compared to other makers
I think I read than in the eighties, the campagnolo group was 3000 French Francs ( about 2 months salary) while the Dura ace was 1600 and the Simplex was about 1500.

I ll try to find a catalog comparison for the parts prices of the time :idea:


About the spokes, you found the weak spot :shock:
I did not actually check while building the bike - thought they were french !
But its actually one area were there were not that many french manufacturers - Robergel is the only well known and I believe Vitus made some.
But here I confess that because of you I discovered that these tubulars are Berg spoked :facepalm: I am dishonoured :mrgreen:

I ll see if my clinchers set with Pelissier 2000 professionel and Mavic Module E is also "foreigned spoked" !
 

torqueless

Senior Retro Guru
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Well, One hundred per cent is not realistically achievable in this flawed world :| I hate to think of you having to rebuild two sets of wheels in pursuit of it.

I bought my first- and almost certainly my last- bit of new Campag., a pair of Campag. derailleurs, NR rear, NGS front, in 1984. IIRC there was not much change from forty quid.
 

bduc61

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Thanks to Velo-pages, I have found this doc in a Brugelman catalog

it is from a slightly later 82 than this bike , but still interesting as it shows the comparison between, standard parts and light ones and superlight !

worth a read :idea: and pretty much in line with certain of my own measures apart maybe with the rims as mines are Super Champion which weigh about 340 g and you still could find lighter ones at about 300g I believe .


 

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