Anti-Hope- Rant.

[greencat]

I'd agree with much of that, thirteen. It pains me to see a new member of my mountain biking group feel obliged to upgrade his 2nd hand and decent hardtail for a £3K full suspension watsit just because that's what most of the rest of the group are riding (and being mountain bike vets are rather better than him). Personally, I've been rocking a 3 year old hardtail that was heavily discounted after my last frame broke. Beyond a dropper post, I haven't changed the spec and its still surprising me with its capabilities.

I do think you can materially benefit from modern innovations, but only as part of an infrequently upgraded package ie a completely new bike. Replacing a mountain bike every five to ten years lets you experience all of the positive innovation in aggregate. You might well see a difference, but probably more in terms of rider comfort than speed/ability.

 

[Madmax1993]

Re: Re:

Don’t even get me started on headsets.

VERY good point!
It would appear that headset manfacturers cannot even use a ruler properly.
I've had three '1 inch headsets' in my hands before now.....not a 1 inch measurement amongst them - anywhere :shock:
Needless to say - none of them fit the '1 inch' headtube either :facepalm: .

A 1" headset refers to the steerer tube diameter, as does 1 1/8" and 1.5". Simplez.

 

[Madmax1993]

Re:

And as for boost spacing and thru axles, those are relevant particularly on 29ers, where the larger wheels have a tendency to flex if they are built around narrow hubs with thin axles. Ergo, the solution of having the hub flanges wider apart, thus widening the base of the triangle formed by the spokes. When you make the axle longer it makes sense to beef it up as well, leading to bigger thru axles being created.

As for your statement that you've never snapped an axle, well lucky you. I've worked in bike shops for nearly a decade, and I often see snapped axles on all sorts of bikes with 10mm Q/R and nutted wheels. Just because you've been lucky doesn't mean it isn't a problem that exists out there in the big wide world.

 

[legrandefromage]

Look at it from another point of view.

How long does a fairly decent bike last with the bare minimum of servicing? It can be decades. How do you create a business model that works if you product has an almost infinite lifespan?

Things can only be re-invented so many times. Every year, shareholders want results and dividends, banks want their loans and overdrafts paid.

In der olden dayz, we just rode out into unconquered pre Youtube countryside. Media coverage changed that, the bicycles we rode had to evolve to meet the 'demands' of the consumer - or was it business telling us we should all be riding like the Grundig World Cup? Either way, the analogy of computing evolving every six months bled into other products with the cycling arms race beginning as next years models were released earlier and earlier each year rendering the existing years' model immediately redundant - 'this years model really brings the trails alive' etc etc

How different can a stem be, lets make it bigger, lets make bars thicker, lets put discs and suspension on everything, lets delete the front mech, lets go to 'composite' materials, wheels sizes, we've not toyed with those, 29 is better, no 650b is better, lets put 24 on the back (again), make bikes longer, change the geometry, change the cassette splines, change the axle sizes, lets change headtube sizes.

Development kind of stuttered to a halt some decades ago with smooth shifting and sorted road/ mtb indexing, its only been tweeked since, braking was sorted years ago. None of that makes you money so it has to be re-invented again and again and again

Cycling is a business and needs to make money, that is all, if you think its there for the benefit of the cyclist....

 

[greencat]

Love that, LGF. One of the reasons I have about half a dozen retro rides is exactly that. The blooming things just keep on going with minimal expenditure. In some cases, the yearly maintenance bill is under a tenner ie brake blocks, the odd tube/tyre and a drop or two of oil.

 

[clubby]

In der olden dayz, we just rode out into unconquered pre Youtube countryside

And while many still do, riding trails have moved on as bikes became more capable.
Don’t think that development has slowed down, it’s just the quantum leaps are smaller and less frequent. A bike from 2-3 years back won’t have changed much but go back 10 and there’s a big leap.
What’s really holding things up is us. We demand everything be backwards compatible with how it’s been for the last 20 years. We need to get over it and accept things change. As for the retro bikes we have, there will be plenty of spares are to outlast us.

There’s a video to sum it up nicely on Pink Bike just now.
For new bikes just embrace the future. One of the riders is tackling a modern trail on an early 2000’s freeride bike. Search for Pink Bike Hot Lap.

 

[shogun]

Love that, LGF. One of the reasons I have about half a dozen retro rides is exactly that. The blooming things just keep on going with minimal expenditure. In some cases, the yearly maintenance bill is under a tenner ie brake blocks, the odd tube/tyre and a drop or two of oil.

My regular (modern-ish) trail rig has had a couple of tyres, some brake pads, a chain and cassette in four years. By my reckoning that's reasonable. Turn the clock back to 1999 and I was replacing forks, frames, cranksets, handlebars over a year; chains, sprockets and pads weren't 'the' consumables, the whole ropey old show was. The reliability of modern stuff is absolutely amazing, because not only is most of it stone reliable, but if you continued progressing past the turn of the century, you'll be asking a LOT more of it too.

 

[mattr]

In der olden dayz, we just rode out into unconquered pre Youtube countryside

Still do. The new bike is much much better at it. And opens up little tracks and paths that would be far harder on an old bike (a lot of them I've ridden on both)

 

[greencat]

Love that, LGF. One of the reasons I have about half a dozen retro rides is exactly that. The blooming things just keep on going with minimal expenditure. In some cases, the yearly maintenance bill is under a tenner ie brake blocks, the odd tube/tyre and a drop or two of oil.

My regular (modern-ish) trail rig has had a couple of tyres, some brake pads, a chain and cassette in four years. By my reckoning that's reasonable. Turn the clock back to 1999 and I was replacing forks, frames, cranksets, handlebars over a year; chains, sprockets and pads weren't 'the' consumables, the whole ropey old show was. The reliability of modern stuff is absolutely amazing, because not only is most of it stone reliable, but if you continued progressing past the turn of the century, you'll be asking a LOT more of it too.

I don't doubt your experience. In the early 90s, I was going through so much gear due in part to immaturity of the sport, the equipment, my ability and my greater risk taking.

My 3.5 year old modern bike has only had brake pads replaced and a suspension post upgrade. I'm riding more challenging stuff than ever on it but I'm probably a much better rider now and I take fewer risks. It also gets cared for better.

My retros, however, are all running proven stuff (in part because its gear that has survived) and not getting worked particularly hard. I use them as daily drivers as its much cheaper to replace stuff if it breaks or wears out. If I need a new cassette on a retro, I doubt it'll cost more than a tenner. If I need one on my modern bike, it'll be 3-5 times that.

 

[legrandefromage]

I'm no longer anti anything really but am no longer interested in 'new', just what works and is reliable - some of that is new but some is also very old.

My seatpost shim has finally arrived so i can build up a frame with a 73mm bb, 1 1/4 steerer and gawd only knows what size seat tube.

And I have some Hope brakes to bleed.

In the meant time, I wander how much a 531 steel equivalent frame and build is these days with discs and 650b?