Identifying Tange Prestige as a tube set - possible?

Afternoon All,

I recently bought an un badged Saracen which I am confident is a Kili from 1996.

From looking around the web and this site there seems to be some thought that the tubeset maybe Tange prestige - it makes no difference to me it just would be nice to know

The profiles of the tubes look similar to those used on Kona Explosif's of a similar age e.g. the TT ovals at the ST and the ST ovals at the BB.

The frame I have has a lovely "ping" to it and is very light (just over 2kg) for a 21'' frame - The serial number looks to confirm 1996 and starts with a P?

So then tube experts ..... can you shed any light.

For Info - mine is identical to this only larger - you can almost make out the tapering

well when i stripped the paint off my orange prestige it did have a slightly ghostly image of the tange prestige on the tubes.

other than this i dont know how to tell lol

The only tapered form of Tange Prestige as far as I am aware was Concept, which is tapered and ovalised, i.e. slimmer from above than from the side, and tapering from 27 x 30 at the rear to 30 x 34 at the front, both top and down tubes.

Tange Prestige seat tubes were bulge butted at the join with the bb shell, bulging laterally so that e.g., you can't fit a low-band fm to a Tange Prestige seat tube of that era.

Explosifs used Concept from 90 to 92, but the ones that had ovalised tubes wider from above as they met the seat tube were the bi-ovalised Columbus Max frames. I doubt whether Saracen ever used Columbus Max.

Certainly the frame pictured isn't Columbus Max, and I can't even see the more gentle kind of taper that Tange Concept has either.

The 1995 Kili in my link is tange ultimate, not sure if that helps at all.

coomber":165olxdn said:

The 1995 Kili in my link is tange ultimate, not sure if that helps at all.

Click to expand...

These frames have the hooded Ritchey drop-outs whereas your Kili is Saracen stamped.

Mine blue & white should be arriving soon so will investigate further.

legrandefromage":fl08yu01 said:

coomber":fl08yu01 said:

The 1995 Kili in my link is tange ultimate, not sure if that helps at all.

Click to expand...

These frames have the hooded Ritchey drop-outs whereas your Kili is Saracen stamped.

Mine blue & white should be arriving soon so will investigate further.

Click to expand...

Do you have the same style frame coming or a different model?

We should start a club ...

coomber":2n5lscsh said:

The 1995 Kili in my link is tange ultimate, not sure if that helps at all.

Click to expand...

Cheers Coomber.

I originally thought the frame that I have might have been the same year as yours but the hooded dropouts were introduced later :?

How much just over 2kg ? 2kg is very light for a 21" frame ? Lighter than my 1997 Kona Explosif 20" (while not the lightest tubeset) is 4.6lb but the (~2080g) same as my 1991 RM 20" frame
Either way it puts it as a light tubeset and not bog standard Tange tubing or similar double butted tubing.

The Ovalising on the top tube is common to Saracens I thought. I'm sure my old mans black saracen from the early 90's had it, more so for the effect behind the seattube to put the logo on. and I'm almost certain it was drainpipe spec double butted stuff.

The ovalising on the seattube was also common on lower spec tubes, look at Kona lower spec frames and I'm sure many other manufacturers.
BUT your's is light compared to them.

Maybe the full serial will be similar to other peoples so post it up ?

letmetalktomark":2lcniz3b said:

For Info - mine is identical to this only larger - you can almost make out the tapering

Click to expand...

Just noticed the bit above the picture.. Just ask the chap/chapess who owns it what the bike since it's RetroBike bike.

FluffyChicken":28k7ko60 said:

Just noticed the bit above the picture.. Just ask the chap/chapess who owns it what the bike since it's RetroBike bike.

Click to expand...

It's mine, definately a chap FC

I'm in the same boat as LMTTM. No idea! My frame comes in at under 1.9kg. No markings other than the Ritchey drop outs, the S logo on the back is filled in with braze but sand the paint off and you cee it there. The paint finish can only be described as crap! The striped stickers are just as naff and peel off.

Ovalised tubes, bulge at the BB end. Tubes sound fag paper thin and the frame is a cracker, rides amazingly, I'm looking for another