V Brakes vs disc brakes - cost comparison
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Indeed, I thought this discussion was all relative to *retro* bikes. It's an absolute no-brainer to go discs on any new (or recent years) build notwithstanding the fact that you won't have any real choice anyway with modern frames/parts/wheels.
Now on modern roadbikes it's another story - CX yes but discs on roadbikes is really not necessary IMHO.
Now on modern roadbikes it's another story - CX yes but discs on roadbikes is really not necessary IMHO.
ultrazenith
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Agree mostly with the above, except there's the possibility to have V brake bosses brazed on to a steel frame, if you really want. Not perhaps the most convenient thing to do, unless we're talking about a frame that was going to be stripped and repainted anyway - or a custom built frame.
FluffyChicken":32abtlqk said:dyna-ti":32abtlqk said:Canti- rubbish
V brakes- semi-rubbish
Hydraulic- Theres a reason theyre fitted to 99% of everything with wheels
Is that your cost comparison ;-)
Cost comparison
Well canti's would be the cheapest option though pads would add up as you need to use more effort on braking so could wear out quicker,plus theyre not that effective,especially in the wet.
Given mtb'ing is mainly off in the woods where the mud lives,canti's will have a hard life and the grit will wear the pads out quickly
The life span of the rim itself is greatly reduced,again de to mud and grit
V's are considerably better in braking in wet or muddy conditions,although thats more to do with the high leverage, and as such suffers the same wear issues as the canti's
I remember the name V's were given at their introduction- 'Rim Crushers'
V pads are thinner and wore quicker than canti.
Rims suffer also,but as said,it will be a long time before you wear out the rim.
Discs
As we know,works everywhere and in all conditions. The pads,though expensive, last longer as the compound used is with performance and longevity in mind,whereas maybe V's and for sure canti's are just shaped blocks of rubber
but of course the total outlay is considerably more.
If pottering with the grands on a canal path then canti's would be the cheapest option by far.
V's are now very cheap,due to more discs being fitted,you can get top of the range performance wise for 1/4 of their new price.
To sum up id say V's where the most cost effective solution to braking ,with both initial cost and of replacement pads. Ceramic rims and ceramic pads would increase life and performance but ups the outlay
i got curious and did some pricing and maths....
Lets do this using a typical online parts source with in stock items (CRC), and start at sensible mid range spec level (Deore), and assuming new build with no existing parts
The Brakes
--------------------
Deore Disc Brakes are only £35 and end and include lever, calliper, and hoses (Acera Disc Brakes are £20 an end are perfectly adequate brakes)
Rotors can be had for £10 each
so £90 for a decent set of disc brakes (cheaper is possible and, if you want to go SLX/XT you can but obviously cost more)
Deore V brakes are £17 per end at CRC but don't include levers or cables
Deore levers are another £20
Cables? lets say £15 for the full setup
so £69 for a decent set of V brakes
Currently V brakes are -£21 at initial point of purchase
The Wheels
--------------------
Wheels cost is pretty much irrelevant if you assume we are starting this from a no-parts situation as the difference in cost of say a Deore disc vs non-disc hub is about £5 and rims are the same price.
If you went for factory wheelsets you could get rim brake wheels cheaper so based on what's available let say you could get a decent set Rim brake wheels for < £100, turns out you can do the same for disc, so lets be generous and say you have a proper look around, find a bargain and can save £50 on the wheels
A couple of Factory wheelset options if you don't want custom
Mavic CrossOne Disc £145
Shimano MT15 Disc Wheelse £80
Obviously you cna spend more or less for either disc or rim depending on your taste.
Currently V brakes are now up -£70 at initial point of purchase IF you take that £50 into account, personally I think the cost for decent rim and decent disc wheels are on par so I'll be ignoring that £50 saving from now on.
The Ongoing costs
--------------------
Pads
-----
Pads are about the same for both rim and disc so no real point looking there.
Pad wear is too dependant on conditions and location but for me I get about twice as long out of a set of disc pads than rim (1-3 months for rim, 3-6 for disc,), so lets be generous and take good weather conditions and assume the rim brakes go through 4 sets per year, and the disc 2 sets, my own experience is that I go through a LOT more, especially in winter but I'm picking the generous situation here ;-)
pads come in from £5-10 and end (for both types of brake) depending on where you buy and what you like, lets again be generous and assume you're getting them for £5 a pop so £20 a year on v brake pads vs £10 per year on disc
V brakes are now +£10 per year on pad cost
Cables
------
Discs *might* need a bleed, but often won't for a few years, lets assume they do and factor in £5 on fluid
V brakes, well if you're like me you'll get through at least 1 set in winter, and another over the rest of the year but lets assume new cables once a year at £15
V brakes are now +£10 per year on cable cost
Rims
----
No wear on rims for discs so only time you replace is through accident/damage, and rotors can easily get to 3 years before showing any appreciable wear.
so £20 but only after 2-3 years
V brakes, in my experience I go through a light XC rim in 6-12months, a beefy one is about 10-16months
so basically 1.5 rims per year, your experience may be different depending on location and how often/far you ride
basic mavic rim (117) is £20 a pop, so x1.5 = £30 per year, asssuming I can rebuild it myself and don't need new spokes, if you need to pay someone then this gets a lot more expensive, and if you like 717s instead they are £40 each so x1.5 = £60
V brakes are now +£30 per year on rim cost as a minimum, worst case with 717s and paying a shop to rebuild could be +£100
So overall....ignoring the wheel price difference as I don't think it's relevant, take £50 off the year 1 figures otherwise
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Initial purchase, rim brakes -£21
Year 1 Rim brakes +£20 on cables and pads
Year 1 Rim brakes +£30 on rims
So V brakes are ~£30 more expensive after a single year,
£80 more expensive over 2 years
£110 more expensive over 3 years! (rotor replacement time)
Factor in better rims and paying a shop and that becomes:
£130 more expensive after a single year,
£180 more expensive over 2 years
£210 more expensive over 3 years!
Even if you assume you get 3 years out of a rim, can rebuild it yourself and choose a cheap rim the disc brakes will work out cheaper after as little as 12 months.
Obviously you could come out with very different answers if you went up to XT or XTR level as the initial purchase price difference becomes much bigger.
I think *purely on cost* the discs would work out cheaper unless you don't do many miles or don't ride in mud and wet weather.
if you're a low mileage, fair weather cyclist then V brakes would be cheaper.
if you're a higher mileage, or filthy conditions rider then the disc brakes are cheaper
I tried to not mention performance at all in any of the above to keep it purely based on cost, but the thing to remember is that even a basic disc brake will have superior performance to the V brake, and the benefits of going up the range are mostly in weight not outright performance. If you start doing things like using ceramic rims to improve longevity and performance then the gap closes again.
Lets do this using a typical online parts source with in stock items (CRC), and start at sensible mid range spec level (Deore), and assuming new build with no existing parts
The Brakes
--------------------
Deore Disc Brakes are only £35 and end and include lever, calliper, and hoses (Acera Disc Brakes are £20 an end are perfectly adequate brakes)
Rotors can be had for £10 each
so £90 for a decent set of disc brakes (cheaper is possible and, if you want to go SLX/XT you can but obviously cost more)
Deore V brakes are £17 per end at CRC but don't include levers or cables
Deore levers are another £20
Cables? lets say £15 for the full setup
so £69 for a decent set of V brakes
Currently V brakes are -£21 at initial point of purchase
The Wheels
--------------------
Wheels cost is pretty much irrelevant if you assume we are starting this from a no-parts situation as the difference in cost of say a Deore disc vs non-disc hub is about £5 and rims are the same price.
If you went for factory wheelsets you could get rim brake wheels cheaper so based on what's available let say you could get a decent set Rim brake wheels for < £100, turns out you can do the same for disc, so lets be generous and say you have a proper look around, find a bargain and can save £50 on the wheels
A couple of Factory wheelset options if you don't want custom
Mavic CrossOne Disc £145
Shimano MT15 Disc Wheelse £80
Obviously you cna spend more or less for either disc or rim depending on your taste.
Currently V brakes are now up -£70 at initial point of purchase IF you take that £50 into account, personally I think the cost for decent rim and decent disc wheels are on par so I'll be ignoring that £50 saving from now on.
The Ongoing costs
--------------------
Pads
-----
Pads are about the same for both rim and disc so no real point looking there.
Pad wear is too dependant on conditions and location but for me I get about twice as long out of a set of disc pads than rim (1-3 months for rim, 3-6 for disc,), so lets be generous and take good weather conditions and assume the rim brakes go through 4 sets per year, and the disc 2 sets, my own experience is that I go through a LOT more, especially in winter but I'm picking the generous situation here ;-)
pads come in from £5-10 and end (for both types of brake) depending on where you buy and what you like, lets again be generous and assume you're getting them for £5 a pop so £20 a year on v brake pads vs £10 per year on disc
V brakes are now +£10 per year on pad cost
Cables
------
Discs *might* need a bleed, but often won't for a few years, lets assume they do and factor in £5 on fluid
V brakes, well if you're like me you'll get through at least 1 set in winter, and another over the rest of the year but lets assume new cables once a year at £15
V brakes are now +£10 per year on cable cost
Rims
----
No wear on rims for discs so only time you replace is through accident/damage, and rotors can easily get to 3 years before showing any appreciable wear.
so £20 but only after 2-3 years
V brakes, in my experience I go through a light XC rim in 6-12months, a beefy one is about 10-16months
so basically 1.5 rims per year, your experience may be different depending on location and how often/far you ride
basic mavic rim (117) is £20 a pop, so x1.5 = £30 per year, asssuming I can rebuild it myself and don't need new spokes, if you need to pay someone then this gets a lot more expensive, and if you like 717s instead they are £40 each so x1.5 = £60
V brakes are now +£30 per year on rim cost as a minimum, worst case with 717s and paying a shop to rebuild could be +£100
So overall....ignoring the wheel price difference as I don't think it's relevant, take £50 off the year 1 figures otherwise
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Initial purchase, rim brakes -£21
Year 1 Rim brakes +£20 on cables and pads
Year 1 Rim brakes +£30 on rims
So V brakes are ~£30 more expensive after a single year,
£80 more expensive over 2 years
£110 more expensive over 3 years! (rotor replacement time)
Factor in better rims and paying a shop and that becomes:
£130 more expensive after a single year,
£180 more expensive over 2 years
£210 more expensive over 3 years!
Even if you assume you get 3 years out of a rim, can rebuild it yourself and choose a cheap rim the disc brakes will work out cheaper after as little as 12 months.
Obviously you could come out with very different answers if you went up to XT or XTR level as the initial purchase price difference becomes much bigger.
I think *purely on cost* the discs would work out cheaper unless you don't do many miles or don't ride in mud and wet weather.
if you're a low mileage, fair weather cyclist then V brakes would be cheaper.
if you're a higher mileage, or filthy conditions rider then the disc brakes are cheaper
I tried to not mention performance at all in any of the above to keep it purely based on cost, but the thing to remember is that even a basic disc brake will have superior performance to the V brake, and the benefits of going up the range are mostly in weight not outright performance. If you start doing things like using ceramic rims to improve longevity and performance then the gap closes again.
feel free to disagree with my assumptions BTW, like the chap earlier who said he could get 10 years out of a rim, I would love it if my rims lasted that long!
I've managed to get through 2 sets of V Brake pads and put 50% wear on a pair of brand new rims (also trashed a brand new UN55 BB and full set of cables) in a single 24hr race!
Even my commuter that never sees mud, just a bit of water and road filth can burn through a front rim in about 9 months!
I should clarify that I have no bias, I have bikes with discs and bikes with rim brakes and I love them all equally
I've managed to get through 2 sets of V Brake pads and put 50% wear on a pair of brand new rims (also trashed a brand new UN55 BB and full set of cables) in a single 24hr race!
Even my commuter that never sees mud, just a bit of water and road filth can burn through a front rim in about 9 months!
I should clarify that I have no bias, I have bikes with discs and bikes with rim brakes and I love them all equally
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