Royal Mail and suspension units - A Warning

[NeilM]

So what happens if I send a shock to USA to be serviced?
Would I be better asking for fed ex?
How much extra do Royal Mail charge if I send a shock to J TECH?

In the case that was on Singletrack, a guy in Edinburgh sent a shock off to be serviced and it never arrived. When he followed this up he was told the shock had been disposed of.

So, if you sent a shock in the post to J Tech and it was detected, it would be confiscated and 'disposed of'. You would lose the shock and have no right to appeal as you would have breached the Post Office's terms and conditions.

 

[Pyro Tim]

I get spray paints in the Mail all the time?
So what happens if I send a shock to USA to be serviced?
Would I be better asking for fed ex?
How much extra do Royal Mail charge if I send a shock to J TECH?

If you send spray paint, without declaring it as hazardous goods, then you are breaking the law, as well as the terms and conditions, as with everything I've been talking about. It is a legal requirement to declare it with whoever you send it with.

You can generally get away with sending things internally, but if it's going by air, Fed-Ex / DHL whoever will probably return it to you

 

[downhillwego]

Ahhhhhhh! So if I tell them what it is all will be ok?
And I can I fact send it?

 

[Rampage]

Another story about a big company doing what it wants and pretending they are above UK law.
Reminds me of the like of Currys, Dixons etc who say you only have a manufacturers warranty of one year etc. All the staff are trained to say this, but it's actually against the law.

"It is also against the law to mislead consumers about their legal rights - this could lead to a criminal prosecution under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008."

 

[NeilM]

[
You can generally get away with sending things internally, but if it's going by air, Fed-Ex / DHL whoever will probably return it to you

But the Post Office won't. They will confiscate it and dispose of it, which usually means they put it on a pallet along with lots of other items they have confiscated and sell it at auction.

 

[pete_mcc]

Al-qaeda are going to be pissed off when they hear about this-how they going to post their parcel bombs and shit? I guess TNT are going to get another customer.

 

[Anthony]

Unfortunately a lot of what has been said in this thread is wrong. The regulations that RM have put in place allow them to deem a wide range of items to be dangerous, whether there is any rational basis for their decision or not. It is wrong to say that if you de-pressurise your shock and say so, then you will be ok - they specifically say that anything capable of being pressurised is dangerous, whether it has any pressure in it or not.

It's also wrong to say that items going by road are ok - RM apply the CAA air freight rules to all freight, supposedly on the grounds that when an item goes through the sorting office scanner, it isn't yet clear how it will be carried.

It's also wrong to say that RM is pretending they are above UK law - owing to their former nationalised status, the regulations they choose to make are part of the law of the land. That's why you can be sent to jail for breaking these rules. The fact that they have been allowed to keep this power is a bit of a disgrace - especially if they use it to steal from their customers so as to boost their profits.

Some people have said what about Chain Reaction etc, but RM say that it makes a difference if an item is new and in its original packaging. This is obviously ridiculous, as there's no difference in danger, and the real issue for them is that they only want to bully small customers and daren't offend big ones.

I would guess that it's dodgy to use any fast delivery service, not just RM, as anything going partly by air is going to be scanned and other carriers should also be applying CAA rules. However other carriers may not be following RM in applying air freight rules to all freight, and some may not be capable of scanning all parcels. I would guess that a slow and cheap service may be the least risky option.

 

[rosstheboss]

Not sure when they started getting more sensitive to this stuff, I sent an air rifle by RM a few months ago no problem!

 

[Pyro Tim]

Unfortunately a lot of what has been said in this thread is wrong. The regulations that RM have put in place allow them to deem a wide range of items to be dangerous, whether there is any rational basis for their decision or not. It is wrong to say that if you de-pressurise your shock and say so, then you will be ok - they specifically say that anything capable of being pressurised is dangerous, whether it has any pressure in it or not.

I was quoting the dangerous goods rules (law), as I have been dangerous goods trained and qualified. I'm sure if this was done they'd accept it. It would not be class 2 if not pressurised.

It's also wrong to say that items going by road are ok - RM apply the CAA air freight rules to all freight, supposedly on the grounds that when an item goes through the sorting office scanner, it isn't yet clear how it will be carried.

It's not just IATA, not CAA rules. By road it would be under ADR rules, which are pretty much the same. There are no CAA rules regarding DG, IATA trumps it as they are international. Basically if you use a road service with DHL / Fed Ex etc., they generally don't scan, and normally you can get away with it, but you are breaking the law still if not declaring, and not packing to the legal standard.

It's also wrong to say that RM is pretending they are above UK law - owing to their former nationalised status, the regulations they choose to make are part of the law of the land. That's why you can be sent to jail for breaking these rules. The fact that they have been allowed to keep this power is a bit of a disgrace - especially if they use it to steal from their customers so as to boost their profits.

quite right

Some people have said what about Chain Reaction etc, but RM say that it makes a difference if an item is new and in its original packaging. This is obviously ridiculous, as there's no difference in danger, and the real issue for them is that they only want to bully small customers and daren't offend big ones.

The argument is that supplier uses correct packaging and marking, due to their legal requirement to comply with the law.

I would guess that it's dodgy to use any fast delivery service, not just RM, as anything going partly by air is going to be scanned and other carriers should also be applying CAA rules. However other carriers may not be following RM in applying air freight rules to all freight, and some may not be capable of scanning all parcels. I would guess that a slow and cheap service may be the least risky option.

I've covered this above.

 

[Anthony]

Unfortunately a lot of what has been said in this thread is wrong. The regulations that RM have put in place allow them to deem a wide range of items to be dangerous, whether there is any rational basis for their decision or not. It is wrong to say that if you de-pressurise your shock and say so, then you will be ok - they specifically say that anything capable of being pressurised is dangerous, whether it has any pressure in it or not.

I was quoting the dangerous goods rules (law), as I have been dangerous goods trained and qualified. I'm sure if this was done they'd accept it. It would not be class 2 if not pressurised.

I'm not saying you're not an expert, I'm just saying you're wrong in this case. This (copied from STW) is the reply that the OP received. Note the words "Because the product is charged by filling with compressed air and whether it is full or not it is deemed a prohibited item under the above guidelines." i.e., RM has the power to 'deem' as it sees fit, and it can deem something to be dangerous even when it isn't. Clearly the ideal solution to this problem would be for RM to de-pressurise any potentially dangerous item and send it on its way, but they have given themselves the power to deem it still dangerous so that they can claim it for themselves and sell it. I don't believe that is anything to do with either the regulations you are referring to, nor to IATA rules, it is down to RM's own choice.

Reply from RM dangerous goods team

Good Afternoon,

Thank you for your below e-mail, I have looked into the product further and it is a prohibited item and cannot be sent through Royal Mail. Under the Royal Mail Dangerous Goods Policy the product would be classified as the following:

Gases - (including flammable, non-flammable, toxic and compressed gases, new and used gas cylinders, butane, ethane, propane, refills for lighters, fire extinguishers and scuba tanks; also see Aerosols and Lighters)

UK destinations: No
International destinations: No

Because the product is charged by filling with compressed air and whether it is full or not it is deemed a prohibited item under the above guidelines.

Royal Mail takes the safety and wellbeing of our customers, employees and the general public seriously and we have controls and terms and conditions in place to stop items entering our network which, amongst other things, are dangerous, harmful or prohibited. These controls include the x-ray screening of mail (for both UK and international destinations) and the opening of parcels that appear to contain such items.

In accordance with applicable Royal Mail terms and conditions, we may deal with prohibited items as we see fit, including but not limited to, disposing of the parcels concerned. Under these circumstances you are not entitled to any compensation for the contents which have been disposed of.

More information on the types of items which are prohibited in the post for legal or safety reasons can be found at http://www.royalmail.com/prohibitedgoods and in “Our services” or “Prohibited and restricted items – A guide to what you can and cannot send in the mail”, both of which are available from Post Office branches.

Royal Mail general terms & conditions section 4.9 “Restricted and Prohibited Material” subsections 4.9.1 & 4.9.6 state:

4.9.1 You must make sure that you comply with any prohibitions, restrictions or specific requirements in the United Kingdom or the destination country for international deliveries. Restrictions vary from country to country, and can sometimes apply to items which you may think are ordinary. You are responsible for checking whether an item is prohibited or restricted.

4.9.6 If you post an item containing any prohibited material or restricted material (and do not comply with the relevant restrictions or requirements) we may deal with such item in our sole and absolute discretion (without incurring any liability whatsoever to you or your intended recipient) including destroying or otherwise disposing of such item in whole or in part, or returning the relevant item to you. We are entitled to charge you:
• the cost of disposal and/or destruction;
• the standard postage price; and/or
• all other costs reasonably incurred by us.

If posting the parcel at the Post Office you should be questioned by the Post office staff and they advise if an item is prohibited or restricted and any concerns with regards to this should be addressed directly to the Post Office Customer Service team. They can be contacted by writing to Post Office® Customer Care, FREEPOST, PO Box 740, Barnsley, S73 0ZJ or via email http://www.postoffice.co.uk/contact-us-complaint. Post Office Ltd accepts postal items and payment on behalf of Royal Mail but became independent of Royal Mail on 1 April 2012 and is a separate business.

I understand this is not the outcome that you were looking for but I hope that my explanation has been helpful in setting out why a compensation payment is not being made. However if you are unhappy with my response you can have your case reviewed by the Postal Review Panel. The Panel will take a new look at your complaint and will provide you with a final response on behalf of Royal Mail. They can be contacted by writing to: FREEPOST Postal Review Panel or by email: postalreview@royalmail.com. If you do wish to contact this team, please include your Royal Mail reference number which is at the top of this letter. Please be aware they will re-look into your complaint regarding Royal Mail, not the Post Office who you will need to contact separately.

Yours sincerely

Dangerous Goods Team