List of British manufacturers frame numbers

[Jamiedyer]

The magnitude and complexity makes it enormous task. The fact that some of the older manufacturers now only have groups of individuals collating and revising things, along with some producers who are still going having no records back past a certain time make it nearly impossible for accurate keeping of records. I think the fact that to start with to even come close to getting a useful database you would have to identify the makers you needed and then actively search out these records, the large proportion of seem to not exist anymore and rely on individuals on sites like these being able to place a number sequence in to a group of numbers that are owned on here and can place it somewhere in order. Example a poster has # 45 and has no idea but john has #41 which is a 1954 and Bob has #47 which is 1956 then along with opinion or the one person who helped in the shop joining in can confidently put it in 1955 region. This usually takes a whole thread and sometimes a very long time. Then there are the ones such as the recent restoration on here of a suspected 1970's Jim Soens and luckily Jim replied on another forum that it was a mid to late 60's model but couldn't be more accurate as the records are long gone. Then you have Jack Taylors who are fully catered for on the Bluebird site with lots of models registered so you can place and date most models but that site hasn't been updated for a very long time and it has so much information that if it went down tonight I am sure that most of that would be lost. It is also someone elses work so would need permission to use the info on mass. Then you have the situation with Eddy Merckx, whilst not being UK not included but have seen similar situations with UK frames, and one site that has great information on what has been registered with them and really helps to date but there are so many anomalies etc that people are constantly arguing about how the system works, usually as they want their numbers to mean something special. This one especially I have seen people bickering about and reinterpreting on various websites, facebook pages, forums from all corners of the world.
A lot of this information on marques is from private research and websites and quite often don't want it posted elsewhere on mass as someone has put a lot of work into it.
I think it's a good idea but think it would need to be on a website all it's own and have someone who would just work away at it forever as I think that's what it would take, it would forever be a work in progress which is not a necessarily a bad thing as long as it keeps moving forward and is needed.
It could also be easier for an already established site like Classic Lightweights to add a frame number page with registers to the marque pages as it is usually individual marque enthusiasts that have this information and research. Many ways to do it I suppose but the magnitude is huge.
One idea I thought of was a website like retrobike with just the classic road section and besides the general road sections we have now we would have a Marque section with individual marque with a sticky at the top with frame register with dates and models etc that members can add too. A sort of marque readers rides with a database at the top.
That might be the easieat way.
If only I could use a computer

Just a few random thoughts that are changing quicker than I can type

Jamie

 

[originalshinkicker]

As roadking said, the magnitude of a task like this is off the scale. I collect SB frame data and just controlling the data on the small amount of SB frames produced is tough. The reason it is tough to control is the accuracy and consistency of the data I receive. If you compare the amount of SB frames to the total production of British builders, it is minuscule.

If data isn't accurate it makes any list unreliable, if the list is unreliable then it becomes useless. Usually tasks like this end up being the responsibility of a couple of people which then makes it difficult to maintain, if the list isn't maintained or isn't regularly maintained then it becomes useless.

 

[torqueless]

Re:

Just compiling a comprehensive list of 'British manufacturers', regardless of their frame numbering systems, would be a start..

Presumably 'comprehensive' means everything from giants like Raleigh down to gifted amateurs who made so few frames they might not have even been worth numbering... over.. what? Seventy years?

I don't doubt that there were and are regional framebuilders that I've never even heard of. There were likely a few around north London that I've never even heard of too..

 

[Peachy!]

I know a lot of the retro road bike gang don’t bother with the MTB mob (but they don’t bite - honest) they do have a brilliant sticky thread;
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=331715
Something like that could surely be a start, maybe with some limiting posting rules such as;
Manufacture;
Frame number;
Bike name;
Year;
One photo of bike only
One photo of frame number only
And don’t fill it up with a trail of comments. If you really feel the need to comment, PM the OP so they can amend if need be.

 

[Spokesmann]

Just got me thinking....did the old Carlton Me site ever reappear in a different guise?

No but I have a lot of the content and data from it on DVD.

 

[CBguy]

I would agree with most, that for a single person to take this on would be insurmountable. I would think most to hope for would be a blog or website with a list of references to individual marque resources for serial numbers. For example a reference to Dave Scrimshaw's detailed and completely accessible work on Holdsworthy numbers which continues to be developed and revised as new data surfaces. Reference to VCC marque expert for serial number help might be great but is NOT accessible without membership and for someone like myself as a North American member would cost $60.00 US yearly which translates to $77.00 Canadian.

 

[roadking]

Re: Re:

There's a great deal of knowledge on this forum, which is often and freely shared. However, what you suggest is a huge task, perhaps you could give us all an insight into why you seek such a list ?

Rk.

Perhaps I should, in addition to my previous comments, mention that I'm always happy to help owners of the marques I own and any south east (read south of the Thames) builders. However, the marques I am interested in (low volume builders on the whole), and have very good knowledge of, are rarely seen on this forum so therefore not at all popular here despite their ranking in the - framebuilder's - Hall of Fame (sic).

Very few V-CC members here also, I'd encourage anyone with an interest to join. I lead the Lincolnshire Section and there are always rides that RBers can take part in (like the Dambuster's Raid for example, and our June Up the Creek ride).

I also note the OP has not returned to the thread !?

Rk.

N.B I know Peter Underwood (owner of Classic Lightweights), he's been on a few of my rides, and I've contributed to his site - but frame numbers are not what CL is about nor does it cater for the volume makers, nor much after the mid 1970s. I've also contributed to Classic Rendezvous and updated a frame number register there - I'm fussy about accuracy but many are not.

 

[Philmay]

I have been following with interest, but as I am inexperienced in the world.of vintage bikes I have much to learn.

 

[OldTel]

Re:

Hi,
just as a thought, the French forum Tonton Velo has a section called 'Marques de cycles' http://forum.tontonvelo.com/viewforum.p ... 4b2eab885c which has no structure other then an area to place information, catalogues, adverts, etc under a marque folder. It allows a certain amount of freedom, as information doesn't in any particular order, but it may help someone at sometime.

Terry

 

[danson67]

Isn't this the sort of thing that the RB Wiki was supposed to be for...pity it's at GS4 on life support..

Do you have a URL for Carlton Me? We could hoover it up if there's a WayBack machine archive.

All the best.