Could someone help identify this vintage Dawes?

[GettingInGear]

Hello everyone,

I'm brand new here. This seems to be the greatest place to come ask such questions, so here I go...

According to my father, my uncle rode this bike to win a race at Harvard University back in the 1950s. It was the Harvard/Wellesley Race, 26 miles. When he won, he was awarded a new bike, and he sold this bike to my father. My father rode it for years and years, I remember he rode it for family bike rides. Now, he is ready to sell it, as he is sadly not limber enough to ride anymore. (He was 6' 5" back then, and told me he installed a custom taller seat post, as my uncle was a bit shorter)

My Dad has always referred to this bike as a Dawes Flambeau, but I only see the Dawes Cycle name on the head badge, I don't see any mention of the Flambeau name.

So far, I don't have any other numbers or words from anywhere on the bike, but I can get that. It has a few desirable features: the Reynolds 531 tubing, Sturmy Archer shifter, a generator on the rear wheel that powers the light(s), Brooks leather seat, aluminum mud guards/fenders. I believe all parts are original except perhaps the tires.

So, could folks tell me:
1) What year was this bike made?
2) Is this a Dawes or a Dawes Flambeau brand?
3) What is the model name? Is it a Tartan Touring? I saw one in this blog,

El Tode

Explore El Tode’s 396 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

4) What is this color called? It's a bit grimy, but it's like a brownish purple.
5) What is it worth, even a range, given that it has not been inspected yet.
(It will be sold in or near Massachusetts, USA)

Thanks so much everyone!

 

[GettingInGear]

Hi folks,

Just hoping to get any feedback you have on this bike, even if a small clue or a suggestion on where else I can ask for feedback. Admin suggested writing a comment here to bump my post back to the top.

Thanks!
Deb

 

[mdvineng]

Dawes Dating

In this section you can find some pointers on how to establish a year of build of your Dawes

dawescycles.wordpress.com

Look at the Faded transfers etc. in different light levels and angles.

Identify a Dawes?

Hi folks While on the hunt for parts for my Holdsworth, much to the delight of my other half, I acquired an old Dawes. I thought I might be able to use the mudguards, brakes & brake calipers and the saddle (B15 Brooks) for the Holdsworth (reckoned it was worth a punt for £ 25, given the cost of...

www.retrobike.co.uk

 

[GregoryB]

Hi Deb,
Looks to be very early 50's by what I can see of the components - best guess would be made between '49 to '51 or '52. And whatever the original model name was for the bike, it might have had a different name for the US market as compared to the same bike sold new in England.
Check out this link I found for a 1956 Dawes UK catalogue:

Dawes Archives - Three Speed Hub

threespeedhub.com

The Brooks saddle on the bike is correct for that late 40's to early 50's period by the style of the metal name tag on the rear and by the round logo embossed on the sides of the leather cover. Both of these logos were updated by 1955 and the rear metal name tag then had the words "Made in England" printed underneath the Brooks name.
The handlebars, stem and brakes also appear to be early 50's GB models made the GB Cycle Components company in England - the "GB" stands for the founder of the company, Gerry Burgess. The brake calipers will have the model name stamped into the caliper arms - possibly "GB Grand Tour" if the wheels are 26" size or if the larger 27" wheel size, then "Hiduminium" is more likely the brake caliper model name. From 1952 onwards, the GB brake calipers used most often on the British bikes were either "GB Sport" or "GB Coureur." Finding out the model name of the brake calipers on the bike will help greatly to narrow down when this bike was most likely made - either before or after 1952.
It also appears to have an early Benelux rear derailleur with the added cogs on the Sturmey Archer rear hub (this derailleur was first introduced in 1949). The added cogs with the Benelux derailleur was a very popular conversion for 3-speed bikes back then, especially for touring or "club" bikes. Both 2 and 3 gear cogs were available from the Cyclo Gear Company in England which made the Benelux rear derailleur. And some bike manufactures also sold new bikes with this conversion as a deluxe option.
As to value of the bike, that's hard for me to say. It was definitely a high-quality bike when new by all of the components and the frame made with lightweight Reynolds 531 tubing. And I've seen similar vintage aluminum water bottles with the handlebar cage for the bottle selling for as much as $250+ on eBay - that's a very hard-to-find vintage bike accessory. Plus, a person could probably spend lots of time and money up to a $1,000 just trying to get all of the various parts and accessories needed to put together a complete vintage bike like this one when this bike is already a complete and original bike.
Whatever you do, don't sell it too cheap. Ebay would probably attract the widest audience of potential buyers, both in North America and Europe. And check out the website BikeFlights.com for helpful information on shipping a bike. You can even search this site for local shops in your area that can help with packing and shipping a bike. A local shop should be able to give you a rough estimate on packing and shipping the bike that you could then use for informing potential buyers outside your area what they would need to pay for having the bike shipped to them.
Any other questions, I'll try to do my best to answer.
Best Regards,
Gregory

 

[GettingInGear]

Hi Deb,
Looks to be very early 50's by what I can see of the components - best guess would be made between '49 to '51 or '52. And whatever the original model name was for the bike, it might have had a different name for the US market as compared to the same bike sold new in England.
Check out this link I found for a 1956 Dawes UK catalogue:

Dawes Archives - Three Speed Hub

threespeedhub.com

The Brooks saddle on the bike is correct for that late 40's to early 50's period by the style of the metal name tag on the rear and by the round logo embossed on the sides of the leather cover. Both of these logos were updated by 1955 and the rear metal name tag then had the words "Made in England" printed underneath the Brooks name.
The handlebars, stem and brakes also appear to be early 50's GB models made the GB Cycle Components company in England - the "GB" stands for the founder of the company, Gerry Burgess. The brake calipers will have the model name stamped into the caliper arms - possibly "GB Grand Tour" if the wheels are 26" size or if the larger 27" wheel size, then "Hiduminium" is more likely the brake caliper model name. From 1952 onwards, the GB brake calipers used most often on the British bikes were either "GB Sport" or "GB Coureur." Finding out the model name of the brake calipers on the bike will help greatly to narrow down when this bike was most likely made - either before or after 1952.
It also appears to have an early Benelux rear derailleur with the added cogs on the Sturmey Archer rear hub (this derailleur was first introduced in 1949). The added cogs with the Benelux derailleur was a very popular conversion for 3-speed bikes back then, especially for touring or "club" bikes. Both 2 and 3 gear cogs were available from the Cyclo Gear Company in England which made the Benelux rear derailleur. And some bike manufactures also sold new bikes with this conversion as a deluxe option.
As to value of the bike, that's hard for me to say. It was definitely a high-quality bike when new by all of the components and the frame made with lightweight Reynolds 531 tubing. And I've seen similar vintage aluminum water bottles with the handlebar cage for the bottle selling for as much as $250+ on eBay - that's a very hard-to-find vintage bike accessory. Plus, a person could probably spend lots of time and money up to a $1,000 just trying to get all of the various parts and accessories needed to put together a complete vintage bike like this one when this bike is already a complete and original bike.
Whatever you do, don't sell it too cheap. Ebay would probably attract the widest audience of potential buyers, both in North America and Europe. And check out the website BikeFlights.com for helpful information on shipping a bike. You can even search this site for local shops in your area that can help with packing and shipping a bike. A local shop should be able to give you a rough estimate on packing and shipping the bike that you could then use for informing potential buyers outside your area what they would need to pay for having the bike shipped to them.
Any other questions, I'll try to do my best to answer.
Best Regards,
Gregory

Thank you so much, Gregory. Lots of great information there. The bike is with my Dad right now, so I cannot seek the names and numbers from here, but I will pursue this with him.

Also, any idea why my Dad has had it in his mind that this bike is a Dawes Flambeau brand? He is feeling a bit confused as to where he got the Flambeau name, when it does not seem to appear anywhere on the bike. My uncle may have mentioned the Dawes Flambeau name way back when he was its owner. But alas, he passed away in 1980, so we can't ask him...

Thanks again. I'll be in touch if I have any further questions.

 

[GregoryB]

Hi Deb,
From trying to Google the Dawes bikes, they did sell a Flambeau model in the 70's and maybe earlier. The name is a logical choice because the word flambeau means torch and a flaming torch symbol is on the head badge. Dawes might have used that name first for the early US import models before using it again many years later in the UK. Anyway, the name "Flambeau" sures sounds really slick for a high-quality bike to market to prospective US buyers when compared to the names "Tartan Touring" or "Tartan Club." I'd rely on your dad's memory as being correct and accept that the bike's US model name was a Dawes Flambeau.

Also, the other reply with that great link for Dawes Dating is worth checking out. The gallery pages show some very interesting early bikes. Your bike looks like it has the same frame as the 1946 Lightweight model but with many of the same high-end components as the 1950 Dawes Courier model.
And this site has a much better link for a 1955 Dawes catalogue with some pictures. https://dawescycles.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/dawes-catalogue-1955.pdf

For myself, I've learned a lot about UK bikes of the early 50's from trying to restore a 1953 BSA Tour of Britain Sports model bike. Still a work in progress for me but it has many similarities to the Dawes bike. For instance, I've seen some other UK bikes imported into the US from the early 50's that have the Reynolds 531 decal on the frame downtube exactly in the same position as on your Dawes bike - just in front of the upper mount for the tire pump. Except on the same UK sold version the decal is typically placed on the frame seat tube just below the top tube. Also, the imported bikes usually have a "Made in England" decal on the top frame tube that usually always gets worn away.
Another clue is the location of the tire pump mounting on the frame. For some reason, the higher end UK road racing and touring bikes beginning around 1955 tend to have the tire pump relocated to underneath the top frame tube instead of on the downtube. And around the same time, old pictures I've studied of the 50's UK and European bike races increasing show race bikes with a water bottle clamped to the downtube from the mid 50's onwards. Not a totally reliable way to date a bike but this tends to be true for the 50's road bikes.
Cheers!
Gregory

 

[GregoryB]

I forgot something important !!
Sturmey Archer rear hubs are stamped with the model and two-digit manufacture date.
If the rear hub is original, the hub date should help pinpoint the year of the bike.
Gregory

 

[Jonny69]

Couple of other clues which will give away a date are the Sturmey Archer shifter and the Reynolds 531 decal. Both of these were made within a certain date range so will help narrow it down.

I’m surprised there isn’t a Dawes page on Classic Lightweights, but I found this page while looking which might be worth picking through: https://dawescycles.wordpress.com/date/

 

[bagpuss]

The Dawes Windrush model was a popular lightweight of this era .
The three speed hub / derailleur gear combo was normally done by the rider to increase the number of gears afaik .
Shame you can not make out the lug work on this one .

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/165155511314686319/

more here .

Dawes Windrush | CycleChat Cycling Forum

Hi everyone, I have just picked up a Dawes Windrush and I'm struggling to find any information about the model, I've found lots of images but I'm getting a little confused if they are all Windrush's as some have the gear shifters on fixed mounts on the top bar and some have them banded on the...

www.cyclechat.net

 

[GregoryB]

The Dawes Windrush model was a popular lightweight of this era .
The three speed hub / derailleur gear combo was normally done by the rider to increase the number of gears afaik .
Shame you can not make out the lug work on this one .

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/165155511314686319/

more here .

Dawes Windrush | CycleChat Cycling Forum

Hi everyone, I have just picked up a Dawes Windrush and I'm struggling to find any information about the model, I've found lots of images but I'm getting a little confused if they are all Windrush's as some have the gear shifters on fixed mounts on the top bar and some have them banded on the...

www.cyclechat.net

About the hub conversion with an added Benelux derailleur...
Attached are catalogue pics of two different factory bikes sold new with 6-speed gearing.
A 1952 BSA Ideal Tourer and a 1962 Raleigh Lenton Convertible - both with Benelux 2-gear parts added on to an internal 3-gear rear hub to make a total of 6 speeds.
Quite possible that this Dawes Flambeau was sold new with the added Benelux conversion.