Cleland Range Rider (RR-001 English Cycles) Highpath. 1982
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REtrouble
Cleland Fan
Re: Re:
:roll:
This is one of my other bike that I thought would make a neat comparison to show just how different the Cleland's(?) geometry is, my Dawes bought as a bare "Edge" frame in 93 that was built up as a MTB then later changed to touring duties, pictured here in June doing 600 miles north to south through Spain.
Before anyone asks, no that's not "Bear Grylls" drink. But yes that is a super cool Kellogg's cockerel reflector
The Dawes is in front of the Cleland, so the Cleland actually looks slightly smaller than it is!
Of course I had no choice in the size of the frame as it's just what came along but it feels fine to ride, it's great being sat so high & very stable & maneuverable, but seeing as I have to dismount when stood still (feet won't touch the floor from the saddle) it wouldn't want to be any bigger as there would be... ahem... high pitched voice top tube clearance issues.........
I can ride it slower than anything else I've owned so feet can generally be kept up instead of needing to "dab".
xerxes":2voxr2t4 said:Cleland Range-Ridler?
:roll: This is one of my other bike that I thought would make a neat comparison to show just how different the Cleland's(?) geometry is, my Dawes bought as a bare "Edge" frame in 93 that was built up as a MTB then later changed to touring duties, pictured here in June doing 600 miles north to south through Spain.
Before anyone asks, no that's not "Bear Grylls" drink. But yes that is a super cool Kellogg's cockerel reflector
The Dawes is in front of the Cleland, so the Cleland actually looks slightly smaller than it is!
Of course I had no choice in the size of the frame as it's just what came along but it feels fine to ride, it's great being sat so high & very stable & maneuverable, but seeing as I have to dismount when stood still (feet won't touch the floor from the saddle) it wouldn't want to be any bigger as there would be... ahem... high pitched voice top tube clearance issues.........
I can ride it slower than anything else I've owned so feet can generally be kept up instead of needing to "dab".
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What happened to the red bars and stem?
REtrouble
Cleland Fan
firedfromthecircus":3rjminq0 said:
I painted them
too much red....... I briefly thought of replacing the bars with something wider but found the narrowness of them to be so good when riding in urban areas that they will stay.
When I took them off to paint them I was shocked at how light they are, I thought they were steel but turned out to be alloy.
Since getting it I've replaced the tyres, painted the handlebars/stem & put black grips on, made a new sandwich plate that goes between the rails on the saddle to stop it slipping, greased, adjusted everything, & despite stripping the new Sturmey Archer drums & chamferering the shoes, stripping them again then again & trying everything gleaned from running old British bikes & cars with drums, can I stop the £ing things squeelin or juddering intermittently?........ No :evil:
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With a Cleland the quickest way to dismount is by lifting one leg over the crossbar and then stepping down. With practice this maneuver becomes second nature and can be performed so quickly that it can be even used even when control is lost at speed, and with luck instead of hitting the dirt, you end up running in the direction you intended to ride. I have even vaulted over the handlebars when control was lost on a steep descent. The last thing you do is to try to put your feet down by straddling the crossbarREtrouble":31jgj77z said:
Yes the CW mini-bars are aluminium alloy, very light and yet remarkably strong.REtrouble":31jgj77z said:
I have never heard of a pair braking or bending. An alternative to painting them would be to strip them back to the alloy and then to polish them or have them anodised.
The original 'Leleu' brakes that were fitted to all Cleland bikes had a floating-cam mechanism that evened the pressure between the two shoes and compensated for uneven wear. Highpath used such a mechanism on their brakes and worked with Sturmey Archer to add this feature to the S.A. Elite drum brake. However a machining error on the prototype 'Elites' meant that the project was shelved and they never made it into production. The other problem with the 'Elites' is that if water gets inside it gets trapped and cannot escape. Not a problem in a dry climate like Spain's.REtrouble":31jgj77z said:
REtrouble
Cleland Fan
Thanks Graham.
The Sturmey Archer 70mm drums fitted are probably the least desirable, shame they weren't at least the 90mm but I'll work with what I have for now.
I have read about the floating modification which some have done, this is what I'll end up doing if all else fails which it probably will, the brakes are so unpredictable, they will behave for even a full ride sometimes & I'll think I've sorted them, then out of the blue they'll squeal or sometimes judder, it's not something I'm prepared to live with.
A couple of questions....
Would you know where the monster front forks were sourced from?
Also, there is a 10mm ish steel tube welded across the top of the rack, would you know what's that used for?
The Sturmey Archer 70mm drums fitted are probably the least desirable, shame they weren't at least the 90mm but I'll work with what I have for now.
I have read about the floating modification which some have done, this is what I'll end up doing if all else fails which it probably will, the brakes are so unpredictable, they will behave for even a full ride sometimes & I'll think I've sorted them, then out of the blue they'll squeal or sometimes judder, it's not something I'm prepared to live with.
A couple of questions....
Would you know where the monster front forks were sourced from?
Also, there is a 10mm ish steel tube welded across the top of the rack, would you know what's that used for?
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Hi REtrouble,
The S.A. brake shoes should bed in over time though because the leading shoe wears more quickly than the trailing shoe and the brake can't adjust to compensate, they will never be as powerful as the original 'Leleu' drums. The brake shoe dust will need cleaning out from time to time as like any water that gets inside, it will not find a way out on its own.
The forks were made by Jeremy Torr. There where no suitable off-the-shelf forks availabe back in 1982 and so they had to fabricated. Torr made two completely different versions. The ones you have that look like uni-crown forks are in fact made from an almost solid cast BMX crown produced by Haden onto which were brazed 531 tandem fork legs and a steerer tube. Because the Haden casting was heavy, Jeremy later developed used a box section fork crown that he fabricated himself.
I do not know the purpose of the 10mm tube on top of the rack. My best guess would be that it was intended to be a means of easily attaching and quickly removing a rear mud guard with elastic bands. Though on production Aventuras this attachment function was achieved with a much smaller and lighter metal strip.
The S.A. brake shoes should bed in over time though because the leading shoe wears more quickly than the trailing shoe and the brake can't adjust to compensate, they will never be as powerful as the original 'Leleu' drums. The brake shoe dust will need cleaning out from time to time as like any water that gets inside, it will not find a way out on its own.
The forks were made by Jeremy Torr. There where no suitable off-the-shelf forks availabe back in 1982 and so they had to fabricated. Torr made two completely different versions. The ones you have that look like uni-crown forks are in fact made from an almost solid cast BMX crown produced by Haden onto which were brazed 531 tandem fork legs and a steerer tube. Because the Haden casting was heavy, Jeremy later developed used a box section fork crown that he fabricated himself.
I do not know the purpose of the 10mm tube on top of the rack. My best guess would be that it was intended to be a means of easily attaching and quickly removing a rear mud guard with elastic bands. Though on production Aventuras this attachment function was achieved with a much smaller and lighter metal strip.
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To put the above information about forks into context; between 1979 and 1983, lightweight mountain bikes were being produced even though no high quality mountain bike specific tube-sets, lugs or forks were available.
In America Tom Ritchey was using high quality oversize tandem tubing and lug-less construction methods to achieve the required increase in strength as later did Roberts in England. Geoff Apps was using slimmer Reynolds 531st touring bike tubing that required additional reinforcement. This was achieved with cross braces that triangulated the frame significantly reducing the bending forced acting on the joints.
In terms of forks, most frame-builders were using stronger tandem fork legs and making there own extra-wide fork crowns in order to clear the fatter tyres. Ritchey originally used Bi-plane forks as did Roberts and Apps on his Bill Whitcomb framed, 1981 700c Range-Rider. Jeremy Torr however noticed that Haden cast BMX crowns were strong enough to do the job before coming up with his lighter box design.
In comparison, the designers/makers of many early mass produced mountain bike makers were happy to use heavier un-butted tubes. Whilst this allowed them to use stiffer oversized tubes it also made there bikes comparatively heavy.
I wonder who was first to use unicrown type forks on a mountain bike?
In America Tom Ritchey was using high quality oversize tandem tubing and lug-less construction methods to achieve the required increase in strength as later did Roberts in England. Geoff Apps was using slimmer Reynolds 531st touring bike tubing that required additional reinforcement. This was achieved with cross braces that triangulated the frame significantly reducing the bending forced acting on the joints.
In terms of forks, most frame-builders were using stronger tandem fork legs and making there own extra-wide fork crowns in order to clear the fatter tyres. Ritchey originally used Bi-plane forks as did Roberts and Apps on his Bill Whitcomb framed, 1981 700c Range-Rider. Jeremy Torr however noticed that Haden cast BMX crowns were strong enough to do the job before coming up with his lighter box design.
In comparison, the designers/makers of many early mass produced mountain bike makers were happy to use heavier un-butted tubes. Whilst this allowed them to use stiffer oversized tubes it also made there bikes comparatively heavy.
I wonder who was first to use unicrown type forks on a mountain bike?
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I found myself bidding against Graham for the ebay bikes - not a postilion either of us planned to be in - glad they are finding good homes.
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On Sat Nov 30, 2013 I wrote:legrandefromage":3l3ihv8y said:
"This years ride is dedicated to the memory of Steve Chantler who died as a result of an accident at home on the 2nd of July 2013.
Steve was a regular of the old school Wendover rides, Guildford Gambles, Newbury 'Bunny Bashes', as well as many other rides both recent and old. He was a warm hearted enthusiast of all things cycling. And in particular a fan of Clelands. His pride and Joy being his collection of Cleland and Highpath bikes. Many of which he rescued at a time when these British mountain bikes were little known, and so missing from the History of mountain biking. He was also involved with the CTC and RSF and a keen cycle trader, setting up his stall at many UK cycle meetings."
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18256&p=2090412
Over the years Steve had built up what was probably the largest collection of collection of Cleland and Highpath bicycles ever assembled seven frames and bikes in total, though he had since sold two to Roughstuff Fellowship members. However, as he had no close relatives his bikes went onto a house clearance company. When I heard of his death I was worried that they could be lost to buyers who did not know what they were, or worse still be dumped. I contacted the auction company concerned and found out that they had been sold the week before. Though the auctioneers passed on my messages on to the buyers I did not hear back.
The first of the bikes appeared on eBay within a week or two and was sold to a Retrobike member who I knew was looking for a Cleland. Of the remaining four two appeared on eBay a few years later but were mislabeled, there was little in the way of bidding and were withdrawn from sale before the auction closed. I again contacted the owners but they did not reply. In 2017 three of the four missing bikes appeared on eBay and this time were sold, RR-o1 went to Spain, a Highpath modified Aventura apparently went to Ireland and I bought a mainly original Cleland Aventura. When I went to pick up the Aventura I asked about the one still missing bike, a modern style bike built from a original Highpath frame, fork and handlebars. Now knowing what the bike was they put it on eBay a few weeks later and it sold to the buyer of the Highpath modified Aventura in Ireland.
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