Al Carter Fisher connection?

[RetroDavy]

Having just acquired an Al Carter Team Memphis frame, I found a few posts suggesting that they were made in the same Taiwanese factory as the Fisher / Gary Fisher frames.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=233194

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=84197&start=20

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24026

I was wondering if anyone knows any more?

I'd be surprised if they were basically the same frames with different decals - I'm not expecting that. But I would be interested to know if there was any sort of relationship.

The frame I have had frame number A920200019, so Feb 1992?? It's made of Tange MTB OS butted cro mo tubes. The pics below show details of the drop outs and other bits and bobs. It's got a 68mm bottom bracket and takes a 29.4mm seatpost.

The 1993 Gary Fisher Aquila looks v similar, and is also Tange butted tubing like the Al Carter, though the top routed cable stops aren't the same, with a noodle around the seat tube and no brake bridge like the Al.

The 1992 Paragon isn't visually a million miles away either, with additional braze ones (x3 sets of bottle bosses and low rider mounts on the forks, plus different brake cable routing).

Even the 1988 Fisher Hoo Koo e Hoo has a resemblance, especially the green colour (though the rear drop outs with double rack and mudguard mounts are different, and it has a reinforcing ring around the top of the seat tube, and then there's the u brake...)

In 1989 and 1990 the splayed 'Hipstay' chainstays and Extra wide bottom bracket (88mm no less) look quite different.

Ultimately, it looks a decent cro mo Taiwanese frame from a time when those factories were producing thousands of them. Is the Fisher frame resemblance overegged or is there more to it?

Cheers, Dave

 

[sinnerman]

I suspect most of this you will have already read previously on here...

The Al-Carter Brand was the Name used by Townsend Cycles for there more premium line up. It shares very little if anything with Gary Fishers (Trek owned) Brand name.

With that said, only a handful of Far east factories where being used to churn out literally thousands of bicycles for all manor of brand names, with each company having there own take on what there frame design had or needed to set it apart form the rest. A-Pro, Giant, Merida, etc etc etc. All using similar tubing etc.

Obviously Treks mid to high end Ranges from GF, Trek, Klein, Bontrager, Lemond, etc were all made in house in the USA. There lower end frames were manufactured for them in the Far east.

Im unsure who Trek Corp used for there far east manufacture back then, but your frame number suggests it was manufactured by A-pro for the Townsend group. (happily stand corrected obviously).

I hope that's of some help.

 

[RetroDavy]

Re:

Yes, that's good info, thanks.

Chimes with my thinking as well, ie the very many frames produced in the early 90s would have had similar features, coming from a relatively few Taiwanese factories.

A-Pro Tech still producing cycle frames I see, though no steel anymore.

A quick bit of searching (though who knows how reliable the sources...) suggests Marin, Raleigh and Specialized frames have all been produced by A-Pro. I wonder who else they manufactured for around 1992.

If anyone else has more to add I would love to hear it. It's weirdly fascinating.

Cheers