do people begrudge other people earning a living these days?

a conversation elsewhere has made me think this.

as some of you know i'm back in the bike trade, in the last few weeks i've a guy come in who frankly has annoyed me, it's generally more his attitude, he thinks he's a good customer, but frankly he's the one you don't want.

first experience with this chap was:-

customer: can you service my hub?
me: yes,
c: are you sure? it's a DT240.
m: i'm afraid it's not, it's a basic version from taiwan with a sticker saying DT on it.
c: i think you're wrong, i got these wheels from XYZ after i waved the sales of goods act in their face for supplying me with a bike with wheels unfit for purpose, so these are definitely DT240.
m: well either way a hub service is £20 plus parts
c: how much are the parts?
m: if it is a DT240 they'll be reasonably expensive, if not it'll be a lot cheaper
c: i'll give you a limit of £40
m: well i can't be sure i'll hit that target until i open up the hub to see what's inside but i don't think it's a 240
c: well all i want to pay is £40 max
m: like i said i can't be sure until i strip it down
c: you can't be sure? do you know what you're doing? i'm an engineer, i can do it myself
m: you may know how to strip it down but if you haven't got the correct tools you won't be able to do it with out damaging something
c: i haven't got time for this, i'll just do it myself.
m: ok (sigh with relief he's going)

so already he's informed me he's an engineer and he's already told me he's threatened another shop with the sales of goods act, hmm that's a good start.

a week later he's back,

can you service this hub, it's DT240?
m: £20 + parts as i said last week
c: if i strip it you'll only have to charge me half the labour
m: if you strip it i'll still charge you £20 labour as i'll have a jigsaw puzzle that you have stripped down and then have to work out where the parts go because i didn't see it come apart and arrange the parts in order.
c: but i'll have done half the work
m: yes, the easy part, assuming you don't break anything when you strip it because you don't have the tools.

eventually he gets it done, side note, it wasn't a DT240, it was like a bastardised DT onyx/quando affair

:facepalm:

most recent run in,

we are not and orange dealer, same customer as above wants an Orange Crush, a £1400 bike, wants £1000 on cycle scheme and a "cash deal" on the remaining £400, because 30% off the £1000 is not enough to "make me buy it", this was sent in by email to us rather than phone or come in the shop because he wanted to list what he wanted, those that work in the trade will know just how low the mark up is on an Orange bike, pretty much the lowest of all the premium brands, so when i said first:-

m: i'm sorry, we're not an Orange dealer so we can't get it,
c: but you have one, i've seen you on it,
m: yes i have a friend who works there and it was a favour for me,
c: well you can get a favour from him then, (hmm that's not presumptuous at all is it?)
m: er no, it was a private favour
c: well that's not really good customer service is it.
m: sorry, i can't get that bike, but with the price you were maybe willing to pay it's not financially viable for us anyway
c: yes it is, you just don't want the bother
m: because most of the bikes are uk made and low numbers there isn't a lot of money in them by comparison with other brands and we also lose 10% to the cycle to work scheme so by the time we've paid carriage, built it and given you a first service we'll be lucky if we make £50 out of it, you'd be better off going to a dealer who stocks them.
c: but i came to you as you are my local shop, i want to give you my business.
(this is from the customer who TOLD us not asked us to match CRC and fit all the parts for free, to which i said buy the parts from CRC and i'll fit them for labour)
m: well i'm sorry but i can't help with this request.

:roll:


so basically every time this chap comes in the shop it's some form of argument about "i want it cheaper", but he also wants the best/top job, now i can understand people wanting a deal, i can understand that money is tight for people, but i also know what this guy does for a living and i know what car he drives and his teenage son is riding around on a £2000+ bike, this chap is not short of money (on appearances) and frankly on retail wages by comparison i am, and so are the guys i work with.

so to my original title question, do people begrudge you earning a living these days? because it feels like this is increasing as an attitude.

Oh yes indeed they do. I used to work in a model shop and many's the time we'd have customers coming in, asking for advice, demonstrations, to see and check out the stock and then want us to price match Hobby Lobby or Sprue Bros ( the model versions of CRC ) or just tell us they'd get the stuff on line. But that they love coming into the shop, aqter all, not many model shops left are there?

There are less now.

Or my old favourite when working at Halfords in the early 90s:
Can you fix my wheel?
Yep. That'll be 7 pounds please.

They watch.

That was it? ( after tweaking and trueing the rim back straight and round )
Yep,

But it only took you ten minutes!!!
Can you do it?


Etc. Obviously I was more polite but that was the gist. Basically people want internet prices and saville Row service and don't understand that providing a service like that costs time and money. Or care.

Re:

Unfortunately, this is not a new story to me as I used to work in a bike shop about 20yrs ago and this used to happen all the time to us too. Especially with a certain group of people mostly, Engineers, Car mechanics, Builders, et al ( I am not for 1 minute suggesting it is all of these people just the odd few but they do tend to be in these groups ) who are in industries where they charge huge amounts of labour. I know that when I was working we charged £7 pounds an hour ( Car mechanics were charging £20 + per hour ).

So it is not ordinary people it is a certain group of tossers who are so used to ripping people off that they think everyone else 'must' be doing it :facepalm:

We even had one completely mad customer who restored old cars, who seriously bought a pair of wheels into us that he had tried 'truing' with lead weights like wheel balancing on a car............... NUMPTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Analytical engineers are the worst customer.

Equally true if you work in anything computer related. Mention this to someone, and if you are not careful you become their unofficial, and free, IT support forever more.

I used to occasionally do freelance work, and there was always someone who figured their 14 year old nephew etc could do a better job for tuppence.

The good thing is that often these customers tend to be the worst all round. There's little profit in them, and they are usually the most troublesome - but they are easy to spot. Let someone else have them (you may wish to recommend Halfords in this case!) You also have to watch out for another kind. Those willing to pay top dollar - but they want your soul in return.

I'm perhaps guilty of the same myself occasionally as I guess we all draw the line somewhere. For me, it was charging £20 to change an inner tube (didn't want to risk getting oil on my only suit that day). I ended up doing it myself.

Finally, you can find it less stressful if you simply treat it all as negotiation and a bit of a game. I'm surrounded by people at work for whom negotiation is their profession and they carry that approach through to their work with colleagues. They can come across as a thoroughly unpleasant and unreasonable at times as a result. Nowadays, I simply counter their various gambits with my own.

Re:

Sound to me like you have the patience of an angel

we have all been there. I do the same with my car, the little jobs I do myself but the bigger jobs (if specialist tools or a trained hand is required) i will go the the shop and then whinge about the cost every time. I always try to be fair but it somes down to my limited funds, i simply couldnt afford to have my LBS change a tyre for me!

I will try LBS first for parts but often buy online and fit myself since I'm fairly well experienced, but if they can supply and fit for a reasonable cost then great, i think its worth paying bit extra for a careful job well done. Plus I also recognise that my LBS effectively acts as a free advice and guidance service which is great, more than once they have shared tips and info which has saved me time/money and no benefit to them other than being helpful.

I try not to push it, and definitely try not to be rude as I'm not a a$$hole but i guess it could come across like that when i go into the shop, ask for something then say no thanks its too expensive. Not sure that puts me in the same league as the subject of OP though!

jonnyboy666":hzmsqyyk said:

but i also know what this guy does for a living

Click to expand...

I'd put money on him not being a proper engineer. At least, not a mechanical engineer.

Re:

Yesterday I took a pal's bike back to him after it had been in for a service at the LBS I recommended. I had picked it up and spent half an hour of my time truing the wheels. The bill was £70, as a favour to me. He moaned that the other shop he took it to before had only charged £50.

I showed him the list of work done, and told him he got virtually nothing done at the other place for £50, but basically got a total overhaul bar the shocks for a little more.

Some people just know better, and when it comes to money they always bemoan paying a fair going rate.

It is really bad for my mate that does four wheel drives, he gets literal millionaires in wanting major jobs done on their estate vehicles for half the going rate. He is damned by having a great reputation.

Sounds like this guy not only wants the moon on a stick, but also wants you to waste your time. I would actually recommend he takes his woes to Halford's in future.

OP I would politely bar him from the shop. If he's like that with everything he's worth less than nothing to you. He'll bump his gums to a few people he knows, most of them will think he's the fanny and good on you and you'll not lose any business. If it does put anyone off they'll likely be the same type as him anyway.

People are squeezed financially and as such they want/need to get a 'good deal'. They don't understand what their employer has to bring in to pay them their £18k so have even less understanding of small business overheads. I have clients who think artwork is designed by the Photoshop fairy and delivered by ghosts in the night, neither of whom need paid.

You need to try to turn this stuff to your advantage. Make some signage outlining the time and costs in common repairs. Or a comparison with online shops and/or Halfords, anything you can point to to show people how little the real cost is and why they should be using you. For example hub rebuild = three packs of fags or 10 coffees or whatever stupid people spend their money on. I bet they don't haggle in Starbucks.

"But I brought my own coffee beans, all you need to do is...". They'd be laughed out the shop. Do the same.