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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:47 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:49 am
Posts: 481
Location: Hampshire
Okay, what would make it different ..can you please be more specific so we can understand what you consider is wrong with the frame ?


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:54 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:19 am
Posts: 2808
vcballbat wrote:
Okay, what would make it different
up front honesty from the marketing dept, or let's say accuracy..
Quote:
so we can understand what you consider is wrong with the frame ?
nothing is "wrong" with the frame, just not my style, much in the same way that those carbon sportive frames with big head tubes are not my style, but are not "wrong"


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 8:08 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:49 am
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Location: Hampshire
Joop's original size 57.5cm CTT bike has a 144mm head tube

Ti 40th size 56cm CTT based on Joop's original has a 143mm head tube

I would say that it's BANG ON THE MONEY :shock:


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 8:25 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:19 am
Posts: 2808
Yeh, fair point.
Maybe I'm mistaken, but did I read earlier that these frames had bigger head tubes than original, as modern styling dictated it? Maybe my head tube argument is a non starter??

Still, it doesn't look like the original.

I have the same argument with those Mexican vw camper vans. They kinda look like the originals superficially, but the differences stand out a mile. Now if the company that vw licenced to build them marketed them as an exact replica that would be wrong. If they marketed them as being in the spirit of the original, then I can live with that.

On a separate point (and you may choose not to answer) have you any personal or business connections to the Raleigh replica?


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 9:26 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:49 am
Posts: 481
Location: Hampshire
When I first saw the new Ti machine I 'got it' straight away. I studied it and understood what changes had to be made and why. The challenges they faced building in 753, a stronger tube than 531 but joined using a lower temperature and weaker process than 531. I have been working on and riding bikes for fifty years so maybe that helps. :)
I think the slightly sloping top tube gives it a more modern stance and the resized decal a lighter and less cluttered look.... this makes it stand alone against all of the Team Replicas out there as something different and special.
With just 250 made it is very special and a signed certificate from Tdf winner Joop Zoetemelk himself.. I would be very happy and proud to own one. :D
Raleigh has pulled this off in one of the worst years the world is facing...so I would like to say well done Raleigh...a 50th... maybe. :D


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 9:35 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:10 pm
Posts: 1255
Quote:
If you had the free reign to build a Raleigh TDF replica how would you build it ? How would you build it better? Can you give us a list of key features for the frame that you would use and the components so a balanced comparison can be made?


Code:
If you want it as it was back then, buy the original, if you are OK with something more modern but looks retro, buy the replica and be happy.


See this is what I don't get: Of the three-odd contributors to this thread who have bought one, one already has an original SBDU, one has a collection of about forty and counting, and another re-builds 70s/80s time trial bikes with period frames that are the equal of SBDU output in every way.

Where is the mythical consumer of this product who hasn't scratched their itch in the intervening forty years?
Any top end 1975-85 road frame from any source is going to be closer to Joop's tour winning bike than anything that is going be produced today.

You could forgive them for not using Campag ends and Prugnat lugs and such, but managing to build a 753 frame with zero weight advantage and failing to accurately reproduce your own 'iconic' graphics?

Quote:
Since Joop in the TdF, there is thing called a MTB which kicked the development of road bikes and is still kicking it today for good reason.

I'm trying to delete the mental image of a formula one car with dune-buggy wheels and tyres :)


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 10:27 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:49 am
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Location: Hampshire
I've found this rather naughty shot of Bert Oesterbosh's 1980 Tdf time trial machine I thought you might like. :D
A hidden brake caliper...Half taped bars and short cables...non drilled levers....bar-end shifters with concealed cables...Ooh a domed fixing nut.....aero does it for me. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:41 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:19 am
Posts: 2808
Reflecting on it, maybe to a certain extent I misled myself and expected something that perhaps isn't possible.
My first thoughts when I heard about the frame was that somewhere in the Raleigh archive, there were remnants of original stocks of 753 tubes,lugs and campag ends that would be released to make a limited number anniversary frames. And those frames would be indistinguishable from a sbdu frame.

It seems maybe then that I mismanaged my expectations. I do stand by my view that I'm glad I didn't order one, nor would I be particularly interested in owning one


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:40 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:49 am
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Location: Hampshire
Unfortunately the confusion seems to have come from Gerald O'Donavan stating that Joop rode a size 57 CTT and failed to apply the 15mm conversion factor to translate Joop's 56 CTC. This has led to speculation that Raleigh had made an error on the new Ti 40. The oversight was made forty years ago and has become blurred over time. :?

Gerald searched everywhere for the missing 5mm :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:50 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 28, 2020 5:38 pm
Posts: 124
pigman wrote:
That's just it, people aren't getting the argument. I'm not saying it's a bad bike or I would/could build it better. But I would want it different, different in the sense that it turned out like they said it would be - an exact replica. They said it would be one thing, then produced and sold another and that's either misrepresentation or error.

Even though I'm getting on, I still have my bikes set up race style, so don't want a big head tube with high bars, and in terms of tyre width, my 23mm Vittoria CX tubs were about the same section as my current 25mm contis and I wouldn't want 37mm gravel tyres on it

Why didn't they market it as "for the rider who wants to nostalgically ride a 753 Raleigh in TI livery, but with a modern twist to allow for larger tyres, use of Stis and leisure geometry" and we would have known what to expect.

I still reckon I dodged a bullet in my hesitation of deciding whether I should order the frame


Good point. I'm still on my own CX's by the way!


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