Steel then and now - is there really a noticeable difference

Fishymtb

Dirt Disciple
So we had high ten steel, and then we had chromoly. And then butting came in.

Between the days of the high quality steel of the 90s, Tange Prestige, Ultimate, Columbus Max OR, Reynolds etc and today's steel, are we much significantly better off? The older frames like of Kona Explosifs, and the Fat Chance Yo Eddy, and many others. The modern steel would be likes of Independent Fabrication, Surly etc.

Quality of steel or welding techniques?

Just wondering
 
Well I was amazed when I bought my 2013 Genesis Reynolds 520 and compared this with my 1994 Kona Cinder Cone 4130. The Genesis tubes were so much fatter than the Kona, the Kona is definitely more pleasing on the eye and lighter.
 
You can't compare Independent Fabrication to cheap, heavy, mass-produced stuff like Surly.
 
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You're right about Surly being heavy lumps but heavy doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't ride well, and there are plenty of very light frames that ride like pants too (although not mine, your honour...) The ride is all subjective and depends on a million things including geometry, build kit and whether or not the Sun's out etc etc etc. Steel tubing innovation has been glacial for donkeys years, there ain't too many ways to improve the process, really so not a HUGE difference either way between then and now.

>opinion ends<
 
Reynolds 520 is basically yer common or garden back in the day steel. Some of the newer steels, Reynolds 953, Columbus Spirit etc are quite remarkable. Walls as thin as 0.3mm in places....
 
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teh stainless steel alloys are pretty much the last innovation that steel had, probably main diff now is everyone knows how to air harden cromo so brands like voodoo and kona have their own stuff instead of reynolds or columbus etc. i think really 953 and spirit cant be considered in comparrison to cromo variants cos its hard to produce, hard to weld, and super expensive. its pretty much a slightly more exclusive alternative to titanium imo

what really changed in teh 90s was cheapo chinese aluminium taking over and carbon fibre getting sorted, so if you wanted a cheap frame you got aluminum and if you wanted a light frame you got carbon, or scandium for a couple of years. decent steel more or less got squeezed out when it came to r&d money, gets to the stage where its not worth investing in steel alloys. end of the day genric 4130 is as good as anything, all teh rest is diminishing returns compared to using different materials.

then theres teh commercial/branding stuff, bike manufacturers needing something to put on the sales advert, used to be the latest trick steel, and all the lower models in the range needing slightly crapper steel. by the end of the 90s you had endless varieties of aluminium, different carbon techniques, not to mention suspension designs to tempt/delude customers with

these days from what ive noticed manufacturers seem to have all agreed that steel mtb frames should weigh about 2.2kg, no matter what steel they are made of. maybe cos of that eu regulation, even though it doesnt apply to air hardened steel. if you have a steel like 853, you could make a frame that weighed 1.6kg, so all the extra metal is there to make it stronger and more ridgid. i find they tend to feel more planted, less springy but still compliant in a way carbon and ali could never be.

i guess partly its in respose to teh way bikes have changed in general, like the way ppl ride them, in the saddle with massive front shocks and just plough through the bumps, kind of dictates a more solid frame. if you want a lightweight xc machine you would normally buy carbon now. or maybe ppl just dont like the springy feel anymore. but all in all there has been no improvement since the 90s

i have an interesting frame, its made of columbus zonal, latest version of max. the guy i bought it off had it custom made, specced it with whyte 17 geometry, which is a freeride 26er for 120mm+ forks. this frame weighs 1.7kg compared to the whytes like 2.5kg. i just cant think of any situation a 1.7kg steel frame would need or could use 120mm of travel.
 
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The difference is down to CEN testing.

Basically any frame now has to pass tougher EN (european normal) testing, the standard required now is much higher than in the 90's.

So a modern steel mtb is tougher and hence heavier, and will have less "zing" than a top level 90's frame.

The frames have to pass the test for their insurance. Custom builders may get around it.
 
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If that new "unbreaking" health&safety EN testing regulation is anything to go by, then I will cling to all my steel frames weighing below 2 kg (and there are quite a few around, even in 19-20" sizes) as long as possible....regardless looking/feeling/being obsolete.

Looking at new frame prices in the top-end category, I would say even retro Fat Chance' prices make sense, and a good investment they seem, too.
 
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fearfactoryüberalles":h7orm5kz said:
If that new "unbreaking" health&safety EN testing regulation is anything to go by, that I will cling to all my steel frames weighing below 2 kg (and there are quite a few around, even in 19-20" sizes) as long as possible....regardless looking/feeling/being obsolete.

Looking at new frame prices in the top-end category, I would say even retro Fat Chance' prices make sense, and a good investment they seem, too.


Great post from Catf above. Its a bit like can they build a violin today with the absolute best materials that sounds as good as or BETTER than an original Stradivarius violin. Apart from the climatic factors like the Maunder minimum making the wood growth rings from that era tighter and denser and thus the violins having a unique extra special sweetness in their timbre and sound, the answer is a resounding NO they can not. Its the same with the best lightweight frames of the late 80s & 90s they will NEVER be improved on for quality of ride. I have heard this from many who have both new and old variants. Hold onto the old classics !! ;)
 
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My '92 Blizzard rides better than my 2003 Blizzard. Tange Prestige vs. Reynolds 853. The first gives you a refined, racy zinggggg, the latter is just bombproof secure basicness.
 
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