Why do you want to pay someone for old tat.

M-Power

Old School Grand Master
Yet another "complaining about prices thread". I don't get it.

- No seller is putting a gun to your head to buy from them.
- If you put the effort in, you can find cheaper.
- If you put the effort in, you can restore old parts, you do not need to buy new.

100%. There is a very limited supply of NOS components from the early days left now. Its the economics of supply and demand yada yada. No point incessantly moaning about it. Either pony up or be patient. Im alas am not a patient person and have paid way over the odds mostly on here for parts, with no regrets tbh. I prefer good used condition parts so there is no guilt in using them.
Sometimes I try to get back close to what I paid 4/5yrs ago for a rare part that wasnt used. Nobody likes taking a hit, especially when it was never fitted. We can all agree that certain ebay sellers take the proverbial with insane pricing of rare desirable parts. I think its just a way to get product attention personally, then negotiate a more sensible deal. Done that plenty of times. :)
 

Rank_21

Retro Guru
Also 100% agree Woz. Funnily, I’ve had DX XT derailleurs in very nice condition 10-20e on the bay sit for probably 7-8 months. Rubbish STX shifters go like ‘petit pains’ whilst the same ST Alivio with green bits doesn’t sell. Some modern stuff is better though, modern shifters use more durable plastic.
 

BlackCat

Retro Guru
There are a lot of chancers sticking high BINs on NOS stuff. Inevitably some m900 on eBay somewhere at £250 for a rear mech or £350 for shifters..

That said, if you keep your eyes open, and are patient - and yes - sometimes lucky, there is still plenty of NOS out there at fair prices. Maybe not cheap.. but not at 3x RRP either. For example:

BNIB Controltech quill stem, 135mm, 1 1/8, £34
NOS Mavic 230, £10
NOS Pace Renthal Sub 130, £58
2x NOS Bontrager Maverick rim, £21
NOS m560 canti (for two sets), £25
NOS m560 rear mech, £25
NOS m737 canti, £26

etc... all from EBAY, all in the last 6m.. and probably all bought from you guys 😂
 

hookooekoo

Retro Guru
As for new parts, I know I am getting old but the prices of anything decent new is absolutely horrendous now, I have bought new bikes for the price of some new cassettes..... FFS

I have seen wide range cassettes on MTBs for a while, but as I only own a 7 speed 1990s MTB, I never gave much attention to the cost of these new style cassettes. I was quite surprised when I discovered the prices of these new style wide range cassettes.


Looking through an MTB magazine from 1992 suggests that cassettes were £19.99 for XT, £17.99 for DX, and £12.99 for whatever is below DX.

If I plug those values into a time-money-inflation calculator .....

https://www.inflationtool.com/british-pound/1992-to-present-value?amount=20

..... then the costs today would be about £36.00 for XT, £32.50 for DX, and £23.50 for whatever is below DX.

Of course we need to allow for the fact that there is more technology, material, labour, and added value, in a modern, wide range cassette, but even allowing for that, I still think that the price increase from 1992 to 2021 is absolutely shocking. And anyway, isn't increased automation in manufacturing supposed to make everything cheaper?
 

hookooekoo

Retro Guru
1. supply and demand
2. nostalgia
3. you don't have to
4. greedy chancers trying to make a quick buck
I think there's definitely some nostalgia involved. Also, a lot of people who started riding MTBs in the late 80s and early 90s, are now at an age where they have well-paid jobs, and can now afford high prices for all the XTR kit they could only gaze longingly at when they were younger.
 

Woz

Senior Retro Guru
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I have seen wide range cassettes on MTBs for a while, but as I only own a 7 speed 1990s MTB, I never gave much attention to the cost of these new style cassettes. I was quite surprised when I discovered the prices of these new style wide range cassettes.


Looking through an MTB magazine from 1992 suggests that cassettes were £19.99 for XT, £17.99 for DX, and £12.99 for whatever is below DX.

If I plug those values into a time-money-inflation calculator .....

https://www.inflationtool.com/british-pound/1992-to-present-value?amount=20

..... then the costs today would be about £36.00 for XT, £32.50 for DX, and £23.50 for whatever is below DX.

Of course we need to allow for the fact that there is more technology, material, labour, and added value, in a modern, wide range cassette, but even allowing for that, I still think that the price increase from 1992 to 2021 is absolutely shocking. And anyway, isn't increased automation in manufacturing supposed to make everything cheaper?

Think you have have started an off-spin there which is (another) incredible fashion change and actually worth a thread on it's own.

The guys in the marketing department must be doing "high fives" galore. The sprockets are also thinner, and wear out quicker. Compare that to the bygone days of a triple with a steel granny ring lasting ages (say, one ring for 3 cassette changes) which cost sod all to replace. Then consider
today with only one ring upfront that gets all the wear, rather than it spread over three rings.

It's a man made money pit, extending beyond the stupid price of a cassette.

I admit I'm from the generation where a gear change is more of a planned event than an impulse, and I don't need uber fast shifts, but still........the economies are clearly not in favour of the rider.
 

Tootyred

Retro Guru
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As woz says above. Im not sure what type of cheese they make xt chainrings from now, but my latest xt ring lasted 300 miles before i noticed wear. At 600 ish off road its toast! The ring is almost as expensive as the whole chainset, which explains why ebays awash with worn ones.

Man made money pit is about right. I would expect 4x that life from an old skool or decent quality ring.....min.

As for the shifters being " better quality plastic" PLASTIC.....! Thats my whole point about quality of older parts in a nutshell.......plastic shifters...🤣
 

MartinYorkshire

Retro Guru
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As woz says above. Im not sure what type of cheese they make xt chainrings from now, but my latest xt ring lasted 300 miles before i noticed wear. At 600 ish off road its toast! The ring is almost as expensive as the whole chainset, which explains why ebays awash with worn ones.

Man made money pit is about right. I would expect 4x that life from an old skool or decent quality ring.....min.

As for the shifters being " better quality plastic" PLASTIC.....! Thats my whole point about quality of older parts in a nutshell.......plastic shifters...🤣

Oh but don't you know, Shimano, in all their innovative glory, have just released a new "heavy duty" range....*rolls eyes*

It's all just marketing crap. XTR M900 almost anything bar chain, rings and cassettes, will last several years, if not a decade for an average rider. Modern XTR under the same conditions, probably a year or two at most.

Shimano's fishing stuff has gone the same way. Plastic internals for fishing reels instead of metal, etc etc. It's profiteering, nothing more and certainly not unique to the MTB market.

For value in modern, SLX seems to be OK and XT not much more, but neither of them are anywhere close to the quality of early 90's XT parts. Functionally it's little different, only slightly heavier and frankly, if you have 150mm of travel on a modern XC bike or whatever, the few grams matters not.

Someone told me that the thing you describe was a conscious choice by Shimano and I'm in no position to suspect it wasn't.
 
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