What Happened to Campagnolo?

[ferrus]

Yep, and Shimano were nowhere near the first to come up with indexed shifting. Suntour offered it in the late 60s and it was found on the odd few systems in the early 20th C.

 

[ferrus]

This mid-30s Funiculo derailleur from the very advanced Schulz bike was indexed and could handle a 40 t sprocket! Apparently it worked brilliantly. https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site/funiculo_derailleurs.html

 

[LondonClassic]

Credit to Shimano - what their engineering team did was aggregate a lot of existing developments and integrate them cohesively in a gruppo. And then scale manufacturing to levels nobody else could hit. Put some serious weight behind marketing and you become an unstoppable force...for a while anyway.

 

[ferrus]

I believe they put unprecedented investment into R+D, and computer modelling (in the mid 80s) particularly with 7400, which was a landmark in shifting at least. Very subtly engineered, savvy design.

 

[georges1]

My Mrs' early 70s French mixte has dual pivot Weinmann brakes so the idea that Shimano invented that type of brake is a fantasy. The innovation from Shimano on things like indexing aren't to be ignored but lets not get carried away, eh? A quick google suggests Altenburger were first to dual pivots in the 1960s.

Also the effectiveness of brakes is a highly subjective matter - but I can't recall anyone ever saying there was some discernable advantage to Shimano dual pivots over Campagnolo. I was racing in the early 00s and used both DA and various Campagnolo brakes (Veloce and Daytona dual pivots). If anything it was the other way round. Plenty of crit racers with Shimano gruppos swapped out their calipers for Veloce, believe it or not - because the feeling was they were stiffer brakes.

That is very first time I am ever hearing this. I have raced back in the days in elite 3 category and at the time being people who used DA 7410 and DA 7700 dual pivot brakes never changed for brake calipers from Campy. Also the Dura Ace brake pads on Shimano were much better than the ones on Veloce or even Daytona. In 1990 braking performance also received attention and the newly introduced BR-7403 Dual-Pivot brake calipers made an immediate impression with their stopping power. Dual Pivot calipers were also extremely easy to centre and they maintained their central position – something that always affected standard side pull calipers. Even the pro teams back in the pro peloton never changed their Dura Ace brake calipers for Campy ones. A review of SHIMANO DURA-ACE BR-7700 BRAKE CALIPERS which were very good , the 7800 were even better .

 

[LondonClassic]

That is very first time I am ever hearing this. I have raced back in the days in elite 3 category and at the time being people who used DA 7410 and DA 7700 dual pivot brakes never changed for brake calipers from Campy. Also the Dura Ace brake pads on Shimano were much better than the ones on Veloce or even Daytona. In 1990 braking performance also received attention and the newly introduced BR-7403 Dual-Pivot brake calipers made an immediate impression with their stopping power. Dual Pivot calipers were also extremely easy to centre and they maintained their central position – something that always affected standard side pull calipers. Even the pro teams back in the pro peloton never changed their Dura Ace brake calipers for Campy ones. A review of SHIMANO DURA-ACE BR-7700 BRAKE CALIPERS which were very good , the 7800 were even better .

I dont think anyone racing stuck with stock pads for Veloce - Swisstop was the bomb at the time (in Shimano carriers). There are times when opting for more metal over less weight make total sense. I am a carthorse and value a stiffer brake. And my experience is limited to 3rd/4th cat racing in the London area, which was a pretty parochial scene.

TBH I was never that impressed with DA dual pivots. 1050 single pivot calipers with 1050 SLR levers and Kool Stop pads is probably the best combo I've tried for rim brakes. The BA-100 1st gen DA calipers are super rigid and over engineered. They took no chances getting the DA line up and running. I have a set of those on a summer bike I use and they're great brakes. You have to grab em hard though - and that the advantage of dual pivot isn't it. Same braking at the rim for less force at the lever.

 

[pigman]

The worst decision Campag made in (fairly) recent years was to go it alone in terms of cassette spacing and spline arrangement. This has always meant when choosing wheels there's a certain awkwardness with Campag - not stocked, special order, a small premium . Speaking personally, this, and the fact that a comparative cassette from Campag was always more expensive, has led me down the Shimano route.
SRAM quickly adopted the Shimano standard and have benefitted from this. I can't work out if Campag's decision is one of trying to be exclusive or just the arrogance of not wanting to lose face to Shimano

I wonder if the neutral service vehicles carry Campag wheels just for Cofidis.

 

[ferrus]

Even though I use Campag pretty much exclusively on both road and MTBs I’ve always used Shimano cassettes; cheaper, wider range availability esp. for MTB use and I’ve found them to improve shifting.
Requires using different hubs or changing the freehub body, and using Shiftmate adapters which is a pain.

 

[ferrus]

I wonder if the neutral service vehicles carry Campag wheels just for Cofidis.

Ha! I guess they must

 

[bikeworkshop]

Just talking to a sales rep today who was in the campagnolo factory a few weeks ago.

He said that there were areas of the factory that seemed dusty and unused, many large machines lying idle.

It reminds me of where my dad worked - in a Yorkshire textile factory in the seventies.