Awkward Kid
Gold Trader
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1. Pace RC100
2. Pace RC200
3. Zaskar
4. Stumpjumper
5. RTS
The rest don't count!
2. Pace RC200
3. Zaskar
4. Stumpjumper
5. RTS
The rest don't count!
The ten most important mountainbikes
- Thread starter Defiant
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Blackadder
Retro Guru
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suburbanreuben":3s1e2yxo said:With all due respect
So let's agree to disagree?? having owned 3 and loved them all and still own a 98 Y-33 that I think is an amazing ride I won't say a bad thing about them.......Just personal preference I guess? and if you own one I think it helps to know what it is like rather than most folk who listen to hype (I don't mean you by the way
) I know...I know I'm sorry I will go away and hug my Y bike 
I'm not too sure about ten bikes as it's horses for courses IMO but surely the humble raleigh mustang deserves a mention? Yes, they were not really mountain bikes in the truest sense but they influenced a whole generation of schoolkids who couldnt afford the exotic stuff... Round my way they also prompted some to save paper round money for better bikes or make bogus insurance claims 
I'll prepare myself for a flaming now...
I'll prepare myself for a flaming now...
Splatter Paint
Retrobike Rider
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I think I'll agree with some earlier threads to start:
Muddy Fox Courier - an early bike that really worked
AMP B2 - an early 'modern' susser that worked
Proflex - first light weight full susser
Kona Lava Dome (1992 onwards) brilliant entry-level racer
GT Zaskar - race steed
Cannondale Delta V (?) downhill bikes - the one that Missy rode
Kona 4-bar linkage bikes - Mokomoko etc. - were they copies of something else? I dunno but mine was awsome!
Merlin titanium frames
The first Whyte full-sus bikes
Raleigh Activator - just kidding!
Muddy Fox Courier - an early bike that really worked
AMP B2 - an early 'modern' susser that worked
Proflex - first light weight full susser
Kona Lava Dome (1992 onwards) brilliant entry-level racer
GT Zaskar - race steed
Cannondale Delta V (?) downhill bikes - the one that Missy rode
Kona 4-bar linkage bikes - Mokomoko etc. - were they copies of something else? I dunno but mine was awsome!
Merlin titanium frames
The first Whyte full-sus bikes
Raleigh Activator - just kidding!
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The First Mountain Bike Companies
This is not a list in order of importance, but chronology!
From the 1950's onwards, various off-road bikes were designed and made. Most of these were individual bikes, made buy enthusiasts for their own use. They were often based on modifying existing frames but a few had purpose built frames.
In the late 1970's, a select band of enthusiasts set out to manufacture and market their designs. Below I have listed, in chronological order, the first six mountain bike manufacturers.
1/ 1977 Breezer # 1, frame and bike built by Joe Breeze for himself, Mill Valley, California, (Marin County), Oct. 1977. This was one of ten Breezers I built at the time. The frames were built of straight 4130 large-diameter, thin wall tubing. The term “clunker no longer applied to all bikes ridden on Mt. Tam.
2/ 1978 Lawwill Pro Cruiser. One of the bikes that bridged the gap between BMX bikes and mountain bikes. The frame design was based on frame that Don Koski fabricated from electrical conduit and a Schwinn Varsity frame. Mert Lawwill had Terry Knight of Oakland build the frames. The bikes sold for about $500 new and were made from 1977 though 1980 (approximate run of 600 bikes). This bike had only one large front chainring, so was best suited to flattish mountains.
3/ 1979 Ritchey/MountainBikes. In 1979 Tom Ritchey of Redwood City, California (50 miles south of Marin) started building fat-tire frames. From 1980 onward he built hundreds of fat-tire bike frames each year. These were the first bikes sold by Gary Fisher and Charlie Kelly, founders of MountainBikes (later the Gary Fisher Bicycle Company). Fisher and Kelly assembled the frames into bikes and sold them for about $1400.00. In 1979, MountainBikes became the first business to sell mountain bikes exclusively.
4/ 1979 Geoff Apps designed the 650b wheeled Range-Rider Cross Country Cycle for himself. The first bike was made in England by Roy Davies at Dees Cycles of Amersham in 1979. Geoff went on to improve his design and even made a 29er version in 1981. The design was eventually manufactured as the Cleland Aventura in 1982 because large British bicycle companies did not want to manufacture the design. The price was about £400 and each frame was made to measure by Jeremy Torr at English Cycles in Telford, and then assembled into bikes by Geoff in Rowsham, Buckinghamshire. Cleland Cycles closed at the end of 1984 because of cash-flow problems made worse by impatient creditors. However Clelands continued to be made by English Cycles and Highpath Engineering up until the 1990's.
5&6/ 1982 Specialized Stumpjumper, made in Japan for Specialized Bicycle Imports of San Jose, California and the Univega Alpina Pro, also made in Japan for Ben Lawee, owner of Lawee Inc. parent company for Univega in Long Beach, Ca. These bikes, which first appeared at a bike trade show in September 1981, became available in 1982. The price for the Stumpjumper was $850 and the Alpina Pro was $695. Over the next two years, thousands of these bikes were sold.
Of these designs the The Lawwill Pro Cruiser and 1977/8 Breezer designs died out. They were superseded by the Ritchey designs that through numerous imitations, including the Specialized Stumpjumper and Univega' Alpina Pro, went on to become a global sales and design phenomenon.
The British Clelands had to compete with often-cheaper Ritchey clones. However, due to the wet and muddy British Climate that they were designed to cope with, they developed a small but enthusiastic following. They were never mass-produced but even today, thirty years on British enthusiasts still use, restore and make new Cleland style bikes. Why? Because they still offer a unique and comfortable riding experience, they are superbly reliable and have unique technical, climbing and mud plugging, capabilities.
This is not a list in order of importance, but chronology!
From the 1950's onwards, various off-road bikes were designed and made. Most of these were individual bikes, made buy enthusiasts for their own use. They were often based on modifying existing frames but a few had purpose built frames.
In the late 1970's, a select band of enthusiasts set out to manufacture and market their designs. Below I have listed, in chronological order, the first six mountain bike manufacturers.
1/ 1977 Breezer # 1, frame and bike built by Joe Breeze for himself, Mill Valley, California, (Marin County), Oct. 1977. This was one of ten Breezers I built at the time. The frames were built of straight 4130 large-diameter, thin wall tubing. The term “clunker no longer applied to all bikes ridden on Mt. Tam.
2/ 1978 Lawwill Pro Cruiser. One of the bikes that bridged the gap between BMX bikes and mountain bikes. The frame design was based on frame that Don Koski fabricated from electrical conduit and a Schwinn Varsity frame. Mert Lawwill had Terry Knight of Oakland build the frames. The bikes sold for about $500 new and were made from 1977 though 1980 (approximate run of 600 bikes). This bike had only one large front chainring, so was best suited to flattish mountains.
3/ 1979 Ritchey/MountainBikes. In 1979 Tom Ritchey of Redwood City, California (50 miles south of Marin) started building fat-tire frames. From 1980 onward he built hundreds of fat-tire bike frames each year. These were the first bikes sold by Gary Fisher and Charlie Kelly, founders of MountainBikes (later the Gary Fisher Bicycle Company). Fisher and Kelly assembled the frames into bikes and sold them for about $1400.00. In 1979, MountainBikes became the first business to sell mountain bikes exclusively.
4/ 1979 Geoff Apps designed the 650b wheeled Range-Rider Cross Country Cycle for himself. The first bike was made in England by Roy Davies at Dees Cycles of Amersham in 1979. Geoff went on to improve his design and even made a 29er version in 1981. The design was eventually manufactured as the Cleland Aventura in 1982 because large British bicycle companies did not want to manufacture the design. The price was about £400 and each frame was made to measure by Jeremy Torr at English Cycles in Telford, and then assembled into bikes by Geoff in Rowsham, Buckinghamshire. Cleland Cycles closed at the end of 1984 because of cash-flow problems made worse by impatient creditors. However Clelands continued to be made by English Cycles and Highpath Engineering up until the 1990's.
5&6/ 1982 Specialized Stumpjumper, made in Japan for Specialized Bicycle Imports of San Jose, California and the Univega Alpina Pro, also made in Japan for Ben Lawee, owner of Lawee Inc. parent company for Univega in Long Beach, Ca. These bikes, which first appeared at a bike trade show in September 1981, became available in 1982. The price for the Stumpjumper was $850 and the Alpina Pro was $695. Over the next two years, thousands of these bikes were sold.
Of these designs the The Lawwill Pro Cruiser and 1977/8 Breezer designs died out. They were superseded by the Ritchey designs that through numerous imitations, including the Specialized Stumpjumper and Univega' Alpina Pro, went on to become a global sales and design phenomenon.
The British Clelands had to compete with often-cheaper Ritchey clones. However, due to the wet and muddy British Climate that they were designed to cope with, they developed a small but enthusiastic following. They were never mass-produced but even today, thirty years on British enthusiasts still use, restore and make new Cleland style bikes. Why? Because they still offer a unique and comfortable riding experience, they are superbly reliable and have unique technical, climbing and mud plugging, capabilities.
Hi Graham
I'm struggling to get your point in regards to choosing the Schwinn as the singularly most important bike. The modern MTB can trace its ancestary directly back to those Schwinns hence it tops my personal list. It inspired the original Bay Area builders that gave birth to the sport we know now.
The Cleland had no direct bearing on the evolution of the modern MTB, its an incredibly interesting bike but it was a typically quirky English evolutionary dead end. I don't think it was the imports of cheaper US bikes that sunk it either. The US bikes were much sexier and as a 'lifestyle purchace' a much more attractive proposition to the masses. Even if we had not had the birth of the MTB in the states I don't think the Cleland would have sold in huge numbers, rather it would have remained a tool used by a minority of dedicated enthusiasts ( rather like tandems and recumbants), and for that it is a more facinating machine.
So, an interesting diversion in the story but in the big scheme of things its sadly had little impact.
craigsmith
Retrobike Rider
Not in any particular order
Breezer
Specialized Stumpjumper
Mantis XCR EC
San Andreas
Klein Adroit or Attitude
Ritchey P21
Ibis Mojo steel
Yeti Arc
Manitou
Merlin something or other
Runners up
Trimble
Slingshot
Breezer
Specialized Stumpjumper
Mantis XCR EC
San Andreas
Klein Adroit or Attitude
Ritchey P21
Ibis Mojo steel
Yeti Arc
Manitou
Merlin something or other
Runners up
Trimble
Slingshot
craigsmith
Retrobike Rider
The question wasn't 10 most iconic BRITISH bikes. Orange, Pace, Roberts? - not really world-beaters are they?
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Hi Dr S
I'm not refuting your point regarding the Schwinn's importance as the basis for the "clunkers" that then led directly to the development of the mountainbikes. You say that without the Schwinn, "there would be nothing" I am not so sure! The mountain bike could have started with the French VCCP in 1955 but the idea died out. It could have started with the Cleland if the likes of Dawes etc, had taken up the design back in 1979. I believe that the mountain bike was 'an idea waiting to happen' the only question was when, where, and how?
I believe that you are mistaken in believing that the Cleland design was an evolutionary dead end. It's more the case that that the Ritchey designs have, and continue to evolve towards the Clelands especially in the form of so called "Comfort Bikes." The 1980' Clelands steep geometry, sloping top-tube, Short wheel-base, narrow rims and hub mounted brakes, are all very modern. Not to mention the 1981, 29er Cleland.
I do take your point about the Ritchey clones being much sexier. That's why in 1984, I bought a FW. Evans, not a Cleland. The problem was that in English conditions, the Clelands were better in every way.
Charlie Kelly has said that Geoff Apps' ideas were influential. Exactly how, he did not say. Only Charlie, Gary Fisher, Joe Breeze etc, can say, what, if anything, they did with the ideas he gave them. Who knows how many British companies borrowed ideas from Geoff Apps and David Wrath-Sharman?
The Cleland scene was strong and growing back in 1984 when the impatience of a single creditor closed Cleland Cycles down. But you are probably right about Clelands selling in huge numbers. After all the British are not good at marketing even when not competing against sexy US designs with Taiwanese price tags.
I'm not refuting your point regarding the Schwinn's importance as the basis for the "clunkers" that then led directly to the development of the mountainbikes. You say that without the Schwinn, "there would be nothing" I am not so sure! The mountain bike could have started with the French VCCP in 1955 but the idea died out. It could have started with the Cleland if the likes of Dawes etc, had taken up the design back in 1979. I believe that the mountain bike was 'an idea waiting to happen' the only question was when, where, and how?
I believe that you are mistaken in believing that the Cleland design was an evolutionary dead end. It's more the case that that the Ritchey designs have, and continue to evolve towards the Clelands especially in the form of so called "Comfort Bikes." The 1980' Clelands steep geometry, sloping top-tube, Short wheel-base, narrow rims and hub mounted brakes, are all very modern. Not to mention the 1981, 29er Cleland.
I do take your point about the Ritchey clones being much sexier. That's why in 1984, I bought a FW. Evans, not a Cleland. The problem was that in English conditions, the Clelands were better in every way.
Charlie Kelly has said that Geoff Apps' ideas were influential. Exactly how, he did not say. Only Charlie, Gary Fisher, Joe Breeze etc, can say, what, if anything, they did with the ideas he gave them. Who knows how many British companies borrowed ideas from Geoff Apps and David Wrath-Sharman?
The Cleland scene was strong and growing back in 1984 when the impatience of a single creditor closed Cleland Cycles down. But you are probably right about Clelands selling in huge numbers. After all the British are not good at marketing even when not competing against sexy US designs with Taiwanese price tags.
How can the Raleigh Mustang not be mentioned here????
Whether it was the early Black and White 15 speeder with Sahes gears and chromed triple chainset, the later purple mist model with Tourney gears and Alloy chaiset or the Blacka dn Red mist with Tourney SIS. It's what I'd call cheap and cheerful and introduced many a child to MTB'ing.
BTW I saved enouh of my pocket money to afford a Maverick GT, but I still knew 2 of my close friends started MTB'ing with the Mustang.
Carl.
Whether it was the early Black and White 15 speeder with Sahes gears and chromed triple chainset, the later purple mist model with Tourney gears and Alloy chaiset or the Blacka dn Red mist with Tourney SIS. It's what I'd call cheap and cheerful and introduced many a child to MTB'ing.
BTW I saved enouh of my pocket money to afford a Maverick GT, but I still knew 2 of my close friends started MTB'ing with the Mustang.
Carl.
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