Spoke Patterns

[FINNEY1973]

Seasons Greetings and all that. Now back to the proper stuff.

Need some advice on spoke patterns - got a pair of 36 hole Mavic 501 hubs and some Wolber Profil20 rims that are off to the LBS for building up. Not a fan of fussy lacing patterns so I want advice on what I can ask for on the rear wheel (front will be radial pattern).

In a perfect world I'd want the rear done as radial so my first question is can this be a realistic option? (I weigh about 60kg) and my Shamal's are done as such - can it be replicated with the Mavic hubs?

If not, then can I have one side done as radial and one side as 2-cross? And if so which side would be radial? I ask as I have a pair of Spinergy's with such a pattern (2-cross on the NDS) but I appreciate that those are modern wheels and have been designed to accept that pattern.

Any suggestions on what spokes to request would also be appreciated.

Cheers in advance.

 

[Midlife]

Cross over 3 on the read drive side

 

[FINNEY1973]

Possibly too fussy Shaun - i'm afraid aesthetics rule on this one which is perhaps a contradiction when i've got 36 spokes to play with :roll:

 

[mattr]

Couple of things, that I might be corrected on, are 501 hubs radial friendly, and is the wolber profil20 stiff enough for radial as well?
If the rims/hubs are up to it, something like 2x drive and 3x nds might work (I use that for most of my 32 spoke builds as it evens up spoke tension slightly), or as it's 36 spokes, maybe 1x drive 2x nds would be possible.
Not sure I'd fancy radial on a conventionally built rear wheel.

 

[FINNEY1973]

Good questions Matt - can't really answer them though. How do I find out if the hubs are radial friendly? Is there a definitive list of what can and can't be done? - the www for all it's wonders doesn't exactly throw up too many conclusive answers. Front wise there shouldn't be an issue, I've got Mavic 500's laced radially to Wolber18 & 20 rims but I very much take on board the points about the rear being a different kettle of fish. I'm hoping my relative lack of weight may open up additional options that others would shy away from, but having never gone for a full fresh wheel build i'm lacking knowledge. I've had others rebuilt but they went back like for like.

 

[mattr]

TBH, rider weight is pretty much a red herring (to a certain point anyway!) It's not like spoke tension is proportional to weight. And unless you are 100+ kilos or a 2kW sprinter, a pro builder* would probably not make any special considerations.
Sounds like the hubs and rims should be Ok for what you want on the front. But I'd still shy away from radial on either side at the back. Wheels that can get away with this *tend* to use custom/deep rims, not box sections, and also run fairly high tension! But on the other hand, 36 is a lot of spokes! Something like I've suggested (1x/2x, 2x/3x or similar) looks different enough to draw attention, but won't let you down.
Might be worth asking what your builder is happy doing as well. Some shops who offer a wheel building service are very much straight gauge/3x, whereas others will offer the full service. Same applies for spokes, I tend to stick to the basics (db ss), and most shops will only stock that sort of thing.

*I'm very much not a pro builder, just an interested layman, but I've built a nice selection. And some oddities.
I stand to be corrected on all/any of what I've written!!

 

[FINNEY1973]

I'm hoping to go into the LBS and spend some time watching how it's done. looking around the www there aren't many full radial rears on rims / hubs that are of a certain vintage. I'm assuming Shamals and similar are specifically engineered as such to accept that pattern.

36 is a lot of spokes which is why i'm keen to get the wheels built as svelt as possible, aesthetically at least. I guess I'll ask the LBS what he's happy with, he only does DT Swiss or Sapim if I remember correctly.

Don't suppose you have any pictures of the ones you've built?
Cheers

 

[Midlife]

I have some 36-36 built as radial front and radial/crossed on the rear drive side which was pretty common for wheels bitd. Just not for cobbles l will dig them out tomorrow and rake a pic. 36 spokes equates to a lot of metal, what you need is the corresponding metal around the spoke holes on the hub.

Shaun

 

[Way2many]

You need the stronger pattern on the drive side, so 2x or 3x and radial on the nds...

Radial front is fine on 36, but remember the tension cannot be as high as a 'x' pattern as there is less material in the hubs to pull against.

501 are fine with this pattern.

 

[FINNEY1973]

Cheers Chaps, all very useful. The 501's flanges are fairly thick so that's a decent start. Decision will be based on what the LBS is happy to do I guess but if can get 2x & radial rear I'll be more than happy. Some lovely Gommitalia tubs to finish them off, should make for a nice set of wheels.