So, 'made in Taiwan' - is it important?
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beagle
Senior Retro Guru
retroklein":uap91ic9 said:
"Designed by Apple in California. Assembled in China." I definitely think Apple's stuff is getting worse. My recent Macbook and Macbook Pro have both been poor compared to the old iBooks and PowerBooks.
Anyway, I was replying to say completely agree with the point about soul. Agree with The Ken's point about the designer's spec and the time given to the builder as well. I imagine Taiwanese welders have to turn out a lot more bikes in less time than boutique builders.
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Think every bike I've ever had (except the 5 and maybe Tufftrax :? ) have been made over there so I've no problem with them.
Think it's all about price points though. You can't expect a £100/150 On-One frame to be the same standard as a Chas Roberts hand built job. If you spent £560 on an Orange R8 frame though you'd expect that to be built to a high standard.
Saying that, I'd always get a Halifax built Orange 5 with lower spec over a mass produced Taiwan built full suss with higher spec.
Think it's all about price points though. You can't expect a £100/150 On-One frame to be the same standard as a Chas Roberts hand built job. If you spent £560 on an Orange R8 frame though you'd expect that to be built to a high standard.
Saying that, I'd always get a Halifax built Orange 5 with lower spec over a mass produced Taiwan built full suss with higher spec.
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It's all tat, even the UK and US tat, they have no idea. You want Canadian tat.
A welder is a welder at the end of the day , just because something is American made doesn't mean that that company is putting in any more effort , nor does it guarantee a fair wage and decent working conditions , it often does but it's not a given .
Sure there is a lot of tat coming from the far east but there's also a lot of good . As long as the thought is being put into the product and the creator is given enough time to do the job properly I see no real problem in it .
It's always nice to say you have something that was made by someone on the same bit of land as you and it's nice to know that your hard earned is staying in the same country and gives a nice warm feeling that whoever made it is watching the same stuff on telly and has the same gripes about the government , zfactor etc . I don't go out of my way to buy stuff that is " made in ( insert home country ) " I look for well made stuff that fits the intended use , if it's home grown bonus , but if not I wont come out in a rash or lose sleep about it .
BMX owes Hoffman a big thanks for all the leg work he did back then making sure the stuff they turned out was correct . Just think , when it got popular again how many people just starting to ride would have been put off if all that was available was American frames at £300+ . Even the American made stuff back then was pretty shonky , just because your company is rider run doesn't mean any of those riders know how to stick bit's of metal together
Sure there is a lot of tat coming from the far east but there's also a lot of good . As long as the thought is being put into the product and the creator is given enough time to do the job properly I see no real problem in it .
It's always nice to say you have something that was made by someone on the same bit of land as you and it's nice to know that your hard earned is staying in the same country and gives a nice warm feeling that whoever made it is watching the same stuff on telly and has the same gripes about the government , zfactor etc . I don't go out of my way to buy stuff that is " made in ( insert home country ) " I look for well made stuff that fits the intended use , if it's home grown bonus , but if not I wont come out in a rash or lose sleep about it .
BMX owes Hoffman a big thanks for all the leg work he did back then making sure the stuff they turned out was correct . Just think , when it got popular again how many people just starting to ride would have been put off if all that was available was American frames at £300+ . Even the American made stuff back then was pretty shonky , just because your company is rider run doesn't mean any of those riders know how to stick bit's of metal together
LeeDevelopment
Old School Grand Master
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All of my long term frames have been handmade whether in the UK or the USA. My (very) short term frames have been Taiwanese.
If I'm spending a considerable amount of money I will research hard before handing over my hard earned cash and this is more oft than not for hand made and/or custom made bespoke frames.
If I'm spending a considerable amount of money I will research hard before handing over my hard earned cash and this is more oft than not for hand made and/or custom made bespoke frames.
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I'm waiting for the made in RetroBike frames to come out
utahdog2003
Senior Retro Guru
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perry":myad8h8k said:
OSHA does a pretty good job on the conditions part, and the Fair Labor Standards Act handles pay OK... $7.25 minimum wage an hour as of July 2009. You UK folks get, what, almost $9US, while France pays nearly $12 I think? I'd have to look that last number up. Compared to about 70 cents an hour in China. Plus, in the states you don't typically live in manufacturer subsidized housing, working long hours with dubious safety management practices, until you get so depressed you chuck yourself out the window to your death, like the poor hapless souls assembling the previously mentioned Apple crap at Foxconn.
perry":myad8h8k said:
I'll add another requirement. That if it comes out of Asia, it be noticeably cheaper, owing to the reduced manufacturing costs. Nothing gets my grapes in a vice like a $1500 bike made in the states one year and then China the next...and still priced at $1500. These money grubbing pigs are making cash hand over fist off of slogans like "Designed in USA" and "Assembled in America". If you take the manufacturing overseas, then I'd like to see the savings passed on to all of us, and not just the cash-fat goons operating these Multinational Conglomerates that we call Trek and Specialized, et al.
Personally though, I won't buy a bike if it doesn't come from a country that pays workers a living wage, which means for the most part North America, Europe and Japan.
