Shimano AX questions!

[jonnyboy666]

i have just had a guy pop in the shop with a Koga Miyata road bike from the 80's, i'll upload some pics later if i can, he's asked about the spec, it's almost completely Shimano Ultegra AX, i've seen this group being talked about before but i was wondering (and so was he) why the previous owner would have replaced the AX mechs with Suntour Cyclone, this stuff is before my time so i thought i'd ask.

is the Cyclone stuff equivalent to Ax, better or worse? he'd like to get it all matching and there is some AX stuff on ebay at the moment but i said i'd ask on here and see what you guys could tell me. if the cyclone stuff is considered better then i'll tell him to leave it but if the AX mechs are better he can buy some from ebay or wherever

 

[Old Ned]

Suntour Cyclone were a very good mech. Some say better than Shimano, especially the 'Aero' series. Didn't the AX mechs have a funny cable routing around the rear of the mech in a metal guide that was part of the mech? If I'm right then perhaps the previous owner didn't like this and preferred something a bit more conventional.

 

[gavr]

Re:

Shimano 600 (not ultegra) AX was all about 'aero' which was the fashion in the early eighties, and certainly looks the part. Suntour cyclone was superior in every way if you value operation over looks. Shimano 600 evolved into the EX group, then 6 speed SIS and then Ultegra, with 7 speed SIS.

 

[pigman]

Re: Re:

Shimano 600 (not ultegra) . Shimano 600 evolved into the EX group,

didn't EX run alongside ? - EX for road racing/AX for time trialling (or normal/aero)

 

[gavr]

Re:

didn't EX run alongside ? - EX for road racing/AX for time trialling (or normal/aero)

Yes it did - I meant the 600 series evolved into the new 600EX, SIS etc to make the point that it wasn't called ultegra ax

 

[jonnyboy666]

Re:

ok, i'll let the guy know the score then, the reason he was concerned was that the whole bike is shimano with the exception of the mechs, and he's not fully knowledgable about bikes so only knows suntour for the cheap forks they do now not the quality kit they did back in the day.

here's the pics
IMG_6433 by Dr. Branom, on Flickr

IMG_6432 by Dr. Branom, on Flickr

IMG_6431 by Dr. Branom, on Flickr

IMG_6430 by Dr. Branom, on Flickr

IMG_6429 by Dr. Branom, on Flickr

IMG_6428 by Dr. Branom, on Flickr

IMG_6427 by Dr. Branom, on Flickr

 

[gavr]

Re:

lovely bike! This rear mech might be worth a punt, I've bought from this guy in the past...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Shima ... SwzJ5XTtFc

 

[legrandefromage]

Suntour had the patent on the slant parallelogram which made their rear mechs work a shit load better than anything Shimano at the time.

1982 catalog - if you look at the standard 600 mechs, they look a bit archaic in comparison to Suntour

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/gallery2/d/7 ... o+1982.pdf

In MTB terms, try a Deerhead M700 XT rear mech with the a later M730 and see how much better the M730 is.

And his bike is not unusual as 'groupsets' werent a normal thing until later in the decade.

If he were to go full AX he'd have to find the brakes and the frame would have to be sorted for the shifters.

an excuse to put more tasty road bikes up

 

[ata]

Re:

I'd keep the mech if originality isn't an issue. This '81-'82 Roadspeed model was sold with mostly 600 EX (Arabesque version) equipment with only the cranks and pedals 600 AX. The suntour is technically superior and doesn't look out of place. You can find the Roadspeed in this brochure (list of parts further in the document) http://www.koga.com/files/2/0/4/Koga_Brochure_1981.pdf

 

[jonnyboy666]

Re:

cheers for the info guys, i'll let him know the score