Scottish independence

[Chopper the ex Copper]

I reckon the key to the difference is the mind set of the majority of Scots.

Socialist.

Oh dear, that's probably why they threw me out when I was a few days old!

I'm not against independence per se, but the half arsed economics, slightly dodgy interpretation of international law, and extremely dodgy interpretation of maritime political and national boundaries espoused by Salmond are little short of a joke.

I might be interested if the movement was fronted by someone with a financial survival plan for when the golden goose has been cut loose that doesn't defy the laws of mathematics or man.

 

[Chopper the ex Copper]

I'm not suggesting Scotland could not go it alone.

I am suggesting Salmond wouldn't be able to engineer it successfully. Indeed, I'd wager a friendly tenner to charity that the majority of voting Scots feel the same way and deny him the opportunity at the referendum.

Salmond says they'd be automatically part of the EU, because they would be applying while still inside it. Really? The EU say an independent Scotland would need to apply from scratch.

He rant on about 'Scotish' oil. Really? A third.of it is in English territorial waters, but Salmond chooses to ignore international conventions on national maritime entitlements and instead chooses to draw a horizontal line on the map across the North Sea, starting at the Scotish border. That's not how it works. The border continues into the sea at the angle it meets the coastline. And who does he think is going to do it out the sea bed if the Americans and British don't?

And he'd jolly well like to keep Sterling. Shame the Bank of England has said he can't, yet he still has to come up with a viable alternative.

He's undoubtedly charismatic and persuasive, but his grasp of Scotland's role in international affairs is massively flawed. He's a local politician trying to play on the World stage, but the rest of the World aren't very impressed. Every time he says "we'll do such and such with this country, that international organisation, this national department" the body in question almost always responds "erm, we don't think so". The Bank of England, The EU, NATO, and not an insignificant number of large companies all say "No Mr Salmond - you can not automatically join our organisation. You start at the bottom like anyone else".

The biggest impediment to Scotish independence will be Salmond himself, and the voters will tell him so next year beyond almost any shadow of a doubt.

 

[technodup]

Devolution and independence are processes, things can be tweaked as necessary as they run.

They bastarding well shouldn't be.

That's what pisses me off about the independence carry on, that it's somehow inevitable and that devolution, devo max or whatever we get are just stepping stones en route to the ultimate goal.

When are the SNP going to get it? The significant majority of Scotland doesn't want independence and never has. That the fat twat is so close to it is a credit to his political nous but it doesn't alter the numbers. But the more it's seemingly on the cards the more some will be swayed and we end up sleepwalking into it.

Give me an option to disband Holyrood and go back to proper government please. Either way the Union will outlive Salmond. Hopefully it outlives me as well.

 

[technodup]

They are certainly against disbanding the Scottish Government though. Ever.

Only because they think it's giving them free stuff.

 

[KDM]

Re:

Purely by watching scots on the tv when asked, I get the feeling in general that those voting with their heart will vote yes and those voting with their head will vote no.

Salmons figures are still quite vague and I wonder if things like free prescriptions, free university etc will remain free without the mass populace of Englands volume taxes bailing out a country that will largely put all it's eggs in one oil basket.

If they do vote yes, which I feel they won't, I wonder if the threat of the outer islands to demand independence from Scotland will happen? Certainly on eastern Scotland isles there would be an impact on oil and some heavy negotiating that would benefit the isles.

Salmond knows if they vote no it will be seen as his personal failure and I wonder where he will stand afterwards. However he dresses it up it will be a failure if a no vote is successful.

I do believe that if they want to go it alone then they should but no cherry picking, all or nothing. They must go the way of the euro if Europe accepts them. It would be interesting also to see how the bank for Scotland will set it's base rate as I can't see with all that salmond has promised where the money is coming from.

 

[Jamiedyer]

I certainly dont see the figures that support:
'if things like free prescriptions, free university etc will remain free without the mass populace of Englands volume taxes bailing out a country that will largely put all it's eggs in one oil basket'
A bit of a stretch that one

Jamie

 

[KDM]

Re:

Not really a stretch no but more simple logic.

Scotlands population is around 5.5 million and Englands is around 56 million. Using the simplest logic it doesn't take long to see that taxes from the largest population go to help areas with the smaller population and not the other way around.

Road structures for example. Cost vs people using it would make most English roads over used and most Scottish and Welsh roads under used due to so many isolated locations but due to that isolation the road will cost more to build.

As Scotland has not yet had full control of the oil revenues you have to ask who has been funding free things like universities and prescriptions etc? Scotland does not have the populous volume taxes/funds to do so.

The comment earlier re the oil is an interesting one in regards to territorial waters. Independence from Westminster is one thing but as I understand it the territorial waters are owned by the crown and not the government and as such would we now claim that oil is the crowns and Scotland are allowed no part of it as they would be leaving the crown?

Any if it's yes I can't help feel enough questions have been asked of it's future leader and feel these will come to roost many years down the line and if it's no, they will only ask for another one sometime soon.

 

[velomaniac]

I dont care anymore, what will be will be. Unionists and Engladers will slag us off as moaning scots, nothing new there. Scotland will continue to be rubbish at sport, curling is a past time like darts or bowling not a sport. Men in plaid skirts will still be cool for no good reason. It'll keep pissing down and highland coo's will still look glaikit Irn Bru's still made from girders and Scots eastcoasters still put chippy sauce on their suppers.
The argument will never be won but independence will likely not happen.
Oh and Shetland will be even more stuffed when the oil runs out regardless of who they want to govern them, its beyond the backside of the moon to get there, I know I've been !
What I do care about is the UK citizens who cannot understand us wanting independence who do want to quit the EU. That is double standards and will proper damage the country. :roll:

 

[dyna-ti]

As of this moment im more concerned about this 'chippy sauce' issue

 

[ewanm77]

is that what that brown muck they cover there chips in is called?