highlandsflyer
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Raging_Bulls":17w2pn8y said:
They better work fast, we have some nukes and terrain that suits gorilla warfare! And lots of panto costumes, and bananas.
Scotland independence and the armed forces?
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They better work fast, we have some nukes and terrain that suits gorilla warfare! And lots of panto costumes, and bananas.
ultrazenith
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I find the Scotland independence debate so interesting, not just because it concerns how our country will evolve in the next decades, but also as way to examine the nature of nationalism, and the sometimes tribal nationalist instincts that seem to be programmed into human behaviour.
What would Scotland get to take away if it votes to be an independent country? Scotland would be the newly created state, while the remaining UK (which we can expect to still be called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland) would be the continuing state. The UK would remain signed up to all its existing treaties and memberships of international bodies, etc. Scotland would need to negotiate all new treaties from scratch. Moreover, upon independence it would be outside of the EU, NATO and the UN, and would need to apply to enter those international clubs.
The EU membership question may be particularly tricky for a newly independent Scotland. Entry would not be automatic, and membership negotiations cannot begin until Scotland is officially independent, meaning Scotland would need to spend some time outside of the EU. Recent entrants such as Poland or Hungary may resist fast-track entry for Scotland, arguing that it would not be fair for some countries to jump the queue. With countries like Spain fighting their own secessionist movements in some regions, one or two EU countries may wish to make it difficult for Scotland to join, in order to discourage their own separatists.
Legally speaking, Scotland would be entitled to UK-government owned fixed assets in Scotland, plus moveable assets that are only for local use in Scotland. That means Scotland would not have claim over any army regiments, any blue-water naval ships or subs, trident and its subs, etc. The Bank of England would also remain 100% UK owned, as would all the UK's military bases and embassies around the world.
My own feeling is that Scotland would be better off as part of the UK, but I welcome the opportunity of the Scottish people to vote on this question, as a natural part of a mature democracy. Nonetheless, if Scottish voters do choose to become an independent country, I wish them the best of luck and look forward to friendly relations between the UK and Scotland.
On the question of the nukes, it is interesting to note that only minority of Scots actually want them out of Scotland - despite SNP and co claiming the opposite. And while I would prefer such weapons to not exist, in a perfect world, the reality is these weapons are useful to the UK. There are brutish regimes all around the world who would have all of us murdered in an instant if they had the power, and the only reasoning they understand is that our government has the power to destroy all their cities at the press of the button. Us having such weapons also makes total-war of the kind we experienced in 1939-1945 impossible, as nukes could be deployed long before we see the enemy landing on our beaches and laying siege to our cities. Vulgar, but the deterrent does the job.
What would Scotland get to take away if it votes to be an independent country? Scotland would be the newly created state, while the remaining UK (which we can expect to still be called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland) would be the continuing state. The UK would remain signed up to all its existing treaties and memberships of international bodies, etc. Scotland would need to negotiate all new treaties from scratch. Moreover, upon independence it would be outside of the EU, NATO and the UN, and would need to apply to enter those international clubs.
The EU membership question may be particularly tricky for a newly independent Scotland. Entry would not be automatic, and membership negotiations cannot begin until Scotland is officially independent, meaning Scotland would need to spend some time outside of the EU. Recent entrants such as Poland or Hungary may resist fast-track entry for Scotland, arguing that it would not be fair for some countries to jump the queue. With countries like Spain fighting their own secessionist movements in some regions, one or two EU countries may wish to make it difficult for Scotland to join, in order to discourage their own separatists.
Legally speaking, Scotland would be entitled to UK-government owned fixed assets in Scotland, plus moveable assets that are only for local use in Scotland. That means Scotland would not have claim over any army regiments, any blue-water naval ships or subs, trident and its subs, etc. The Bank of England would also remain 100% UK owned, as would all the UK's military bases and embassies around the world.
My own feeling is that Scotland would be better off as part of the UK, but I welcome the opportunity of the Scottish people to vote on this question, as a natural part of a mature democracy. Nonetheless, if Scottish voters do choose to become an independent country, I wish them the best of luck and look forward to friendly relations between the UK and Scotland.
On the question of the nukes, it is interesting to note that only minority of Scots actually want them out of Scotland - despite SNP and co claiming the opposite. And while I would prefer such weapons to not exist, in a perfect world, the reality is these weapons are useful to the UK. There are brutish regimes all around the world who would have all of us murdered in an instant if they had the power, and the only reasoning they understand is that our government has the power to destroy all their cities at the press of the button. Us having such weapons also makes total-war of the kind we experienced in 1939-1945 impossible, as nukes could be deployed long before we see the enemy landing on our beaches and laying siege to our cities. Vulgar, but the deterrent does the job.
highlandsflyer
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Well thought out post.
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Scotland would indeed become an poorer outpost
highlandsflyer
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I really don't see that. We are the second most vibrant economic area in the UK.
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Vibrant?
highlandsflyer
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Really? Know the limits of Shetland's waters do you?
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