Rewilding the Highlands vs right to roam

[Mike Muz]

Hi MacRetrofolk

Just wondered what your thoughts are on this, some of you are closer to this than others, but it would be interesting to hear your thoughts.

No, I don't mean RobMacs nasal hair on a bad day!

I saw a programme recently on the Natural World series, about returning wolves, bears and moose ( Please don't add a link to THAT song!), to the Highlands.

The owner of the Allandale Estate want to re-introduce these animals to the area, and has spent £2m on fencing off the estate to contain them.
However, this is in contrast to the right to roam legislation in Scotand.

There are concerns from the owners of neighbouring estates - all English I noticed - about the impact of the re-introduction. Although in principal no-one seemed totally against it. There would, I imagine, be worries from gamekeepers too about their stock, having their income threatened by these magnificent animals.

Over to you

Mike

 

[old_coyote_pedaller]

Re:

I think that's old news, seem to remember there being a discussion on it on here https://www.ukclimbing.com/ a few years ago when I still was a climber. Although there are recent articles online about this in last 2/3 years.

The fencing from what I remember from the pics put on site may have been fine in the summer to contain the wolves but in winter there would be no chance of that happening. The fence was erected in places where no thought had been given to the fact that any snow that fell would drift and render fence null and void. Don't think it is possible to build a fence over mountainous terrain that would guarantee 100% that it would not be buried in snowdrifts in even the mildest of winters, no guarantee at all. Also why erect all that fencing prior to any permission being given to have these animals re-introduced to the "wild" which would take years to obtain, if at all? I put wild in quotes as, because as it was fenced off it was therefore a containment which was classed as a zoo enclosure type of thing. This would mean that prey animals, deer, moose etc, are prevented from being kept in same enclosure as the predators, the wolves, as the prey animals have to be able to have an escape as they would do in the true wild. They cannot do that as they would be chased up to fence with no escape. Because of this it is against the laws governing zoos and similar endeavours.

Many people thought that it was just a crude attempt by Paul Lister to "keep orf moi land" the peasants who wish to roam freely over the Scottish hills, with the added bonus, for him, of probably charging the rich to come and "see the wildlife" or more accurately come and shoot the wildlife. No idea if fence is still there possibly restricting access to the estate.

I'm all for the rewilding of the Scottish wilderness, wolves, bears etc but there are many problems doing so in a modern, relatively small country like Scotland. What he was/is proposing isn't rewilding but a wildlife park like a bigger version of something like Longleat but with all the animals mixed in together. No gonnae happen.

 

[epicyclo]

Re-wilding is total bullshit.

If they really want to return the landscape to what it was, then they had better decide which period they are trying to emulate.

If they are thinking in terms of the last 2 millenia, then there is a far more obvious species to return to the land and there's no need for containment fences.

Native highlanders.

Just give back the stolen lands, we will know what to do with it.

If they want to go back further, then it may be difficult to find the 2-3,000 feet of ice that covered the highlands only a few thousand years ago.

BTW If they do re introduce wolves then I'm happy to contribute one of its natural predators. I have the wolfhound already.

The whole thing is just a toff's wheeze to keep the peasants off and keep the land for the obscenely rich.

 

[epicyclo]

In my younger days before access was codified, but it was still our right, I used to carry wire cutters.

I can see it now. The campaign for "Free Wolfie". Could start it with the ceremonial dynamiting of The Mannie....

 

[highlandsflyer]

Re:

It is incredible to see monuments to dictators in far off lands being toppled while we still have evil reminders of the dark past looming over our lands.

 

[velomaniac]

Re:

First human casualty of Bear or wolf and the use of "undeclared" hunting rifles hidden around Highlands would increase as rapidly as the resultant depopulation of said predators.

Stupid idea which hopefully will not happen :roll:

 

[jonthefish]

Lister and Alladale aside, there's no inevitable conflict between rewilding and right to roam. I agree with sentiments re toff landlords but at present we have a right to roam through a denuded, degraded and depopulated landscape run for deer, sheep and very few folk. Rewilding could ultimately increase the productivity of the landscape (think forests and smallholdings) and if we could get rid of our stupid feudal system of land ownership could help support more people in the glens. So for me it is yes to both rewilding and a right to roam. And more folk in more productive land.

 

[old_coyote_pedaller]

Re:

7:84

 

[highlandsflyer]

Re:

"Lister and Alladale aside, there's no inevitable conflict between rewilding and right to roam"

Depends on what animals we are talking about. Wolves need a large range, bears are a non starter.

I love the beaver.

 

[epicyclo]

Lister and Alladale aside, there's no inevitable conflict between rewilding and right to roam. I agree with sentiments re toff landlords but at present we have a right to roam through a denuded, degraded and depopulated landscape run for deer, sheep and very few folk. Rewilding could ultimately increase the productivity of the landscape (think forests and smallholdings) and if we could get rid of our stupid feudal system of land ownership could help support more people in the glens. So for me it is yes to both rewilding and a right to roam. And more folk in more productive land.

Rewilding is an attempt to create a mythical landscape, not what was there.

Those hills were hooching with people at the same time as the animals. The hills were not wild, there was agriculture and pastoral activity, and humans kept the predators strictly in check. The wild animals weren't cuddly ornaments for the visiting wealthy to ooh and ah over.

Let me give an example.

Last Sunday Jamie and I were at Forsinard at the RSPB tower looking at the vast expanses of empty land. It couldn't get emptier. No signs of human habitation except at the very small village. At the top of a nearby hill is the remains of a decent sized fort with a good view over the landscape.



A fort takes a lot of human resources to build, and you don't build one unless there's something worth guarding. If you take the manning of a Roman fortlet as an example (purely because that's on record) you'd have about of 30-40 men at arms. They would have families. This fort is 400 metres from the local ground level and no easy approach so it's not some casual defence system like a village wall.

There also was a community in the area which created the wealth required to build a fort, supply it, and be the reason for its building. There are the remains of several hut circles next to Forsinard station, about 4 km from the fort. Suddenly that 'wild' land has a population of at least a few hundred just in its immediate vicinity and probably much much more.

You'll find remains of similar communities all over the desert that the Highlands have become, and no great distance between any of them. Duns, brochs, hut circles etc abound except where "Improvements' have ploughed them under or used the stone for dykes. I've dragged poor Jamie over all sorts of godawful country to see the remains, so he can back me up about the density of them.

That is what the landscape would have been like back then - people. Before that there was 2-3,000 feet of ice over it.

Supporting 'rewilding' is sharpening up the thin end of the wedge for the landowners to exclude non-paying users of the land and continue the effects of the Clearances.