RetroShopper
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chris667":1w7eqph0 said:hamster":1w7eqph0 said:
Never stopped me!
I don't have a car, and I'm usually living a long way away from road access. Currently, I'm half a mile down a track that's so rutted rear panniers ground out, let alone front ones. And until I finish the electrical work on the boat, it's stuck there but not so much of a hair shirt, I have mains there!.
It would shock you the things I've taken down there on my touring bike, and how much easier it would have been by comparison to carrying it. In fact, I get a kick out of carrying improbable things on the bike, it makes it feel useful and me rather smug - perhaps this is why my ex-girlfriend used to call me the eco-tw*t. The really memorable time was riding home with a 50kg sack of potatoes, because they were going really cheap at the farmer's market, but of course there's been lots of others too.
You can argue that front panniers make for a more stable bike and that's true, but they have to be so small they're not useful for most of the things I'd want to carry.
I dislike lowriders is the same reason I don't like trailers. Trailer manufacturers say the beauty of a trailer is you only take it with you when you need it. But what if you see something when you're out and want to take it home with you? Where's the trailer then?
Far better to have a bike that can take everything you want to carry without your having to think about it.
So as far as I'm concerned, lowriders for anything other than road based touring with specialised, planned loads are rubbish. Where's the fun in that?
And as for long bikes, I think they're probably the best solution, but I don't really have the room for one. I might bite in the future though, I really like the Xtracycle.
Kaiser, that's a nice rack. I'd like it to be able to carry more weight though, and mount in more places. Plus, if it had a flatbed, you could lash things across it rather than over it..
I really think I could design some great solutions for utility cycling, as you can probably guess I've put some thought into it!
I tend to agree with you Chris, but have to say that the BOB Yak trailer is pretty good. I don't drive either and use it all the time. It's rated at 75lb max load, but I regularly have over a 100lb in it. Every thing's swaying and twisting with this amount though so it's only good for winching a months shopping home very slowly, in a straight line!
The real beauty of the BOB is it's offroad ability. That single wheel allows it to cover really rough ground whilst handling surprisingly well. I'd never go back to panniers. Obviously it spreads the load as well.
It does weigh 12lb so you do notice it when it's empty, but not much.
I tend to keep it on; there's always some firewood or nice burr for woodturning to fill it. I think the bag that comes with it is 100litres so it's a good size..
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chris667":2f0a0tkc said:
Geoff Apps' 2006 Cleland Aventura II.
0ver 40years of off-road touring experience have gone into this design. These bikes are very reliable as they use hub gears, hub brakes and have mudguards and chainguards that protect both the bike and rider.
I don't know of any mass-produced bike designs that are as low maintainance, practical and reliable as the Clelands.
I have ridden Geoff Apps designed bikes since 1985 and I can't understand, after all these years, why you can't go into a shop and buy tough off-road bikes like these.
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Tell me about it. I love cycling, but I hate the way the industry wants me to emulate racers! Why should I have a machine that needs to be tuned after every ride?
I think my current steed is moving in the right direction; it's going to be reborn with all the mechanicals inside sealed units in the future as time and funds allow. For many years my thoughts on bikes were leaning towards a lot of ideas that are on your Cleland, but apart from a tiny reference to the Range Rider in Richard's Bicycle Book, I'm ashamed to say I'd never heard of them until I came here. Here's what my bike looks like now:
Still a bit too racerish, and it doesn't have the mud clearance. But watch this space.
I think my current steed is moving in the right direction; it's going to be reborn with all the mechanicals inside sealed units in the future as time and funds allow. For many years my thoughts on bikes were leaning towards a lot of ideas that are on your Cleland, but apart from a tiny reference to the Range Rider in Richard's Bicycle Book, I'm ashamed to say I'd never heard of them until I came here. Here's what my bike looks like now:
Still a bit too racerish, and it doesn't have the mud clearance. But watch this space.
I think that for bombproof, then a Rohloff is the way to go, combined with a proper sealed chaincase. Humber bikes from the 1920's and 30s which had the chaincases as oil baths are still often on their original chains! How's that for real engineering?
Of course many will sneer, but what do they really know?
Of course many will sneer, but what do they really know?
I dunno. :?:
I think the Rolhoff isn't all it could be:
* The annoying clockwork noise puts me off a bit
* It lacks an internal brake. Disks are alright, but I honestly believe brakes should be living inside sealed units. I had some Avid Juicy Fives on a previous bike, but they needed maintenance and cleaning, definitely not as easy to forget about as some people would have you believe.
A Schlumpf mountain drive gives a similar range with many other hubs that are better suited to me, and will probably be the way I go. Or I might just have a smaller range. Remember the old adage - 24 gear inches is two feet, might be better to walk!
You won't catch me sneering at any old bike. I think we forgot about a lot of the good engineering and design to make what we do today. Look at my Raleighs!
I think the Rolhoff isn't all it could be:
* The annoying clockwork noise puts me off a bit
* It lacks an internal brake. Disks are alright, but I honestly believe brakes should be living inside sealed units. I had some Avid Juicy Fives on a previous bike, but they needed maintenance and cleaning, definitely not as easy to forget about as some people would have you believe.
A Schlumpf mountain drive gives a similar range with many other hubs that are better suited to me, and will probably be the way I go. Or I might just have a smaller range. Remember the old adage - 24 gear inches is two feet, might be better to walk!
You won't catch me sneering at any old bike. I think we forgot about a lot of the good engineering and design to make what we do today. Look at my Raleighs!
Chris - didn't see you as the sneering type you seem content to plough your own furrow. It was mainly digging at the "it's the latest from Shimano so it's wonderful brigade"
For maintenance-free I find Magura rim brakes hard to beat, one set have been on so far for 12 years with nothing more than pad changes (and those snap fit anyway).
I've not tried a Rohloff, and the Schlumpf seems elegant - I've had a play once on a recumbent.
For maintenance-free I find Magura rim brakes hard to beat, one set have been on so far for 12 years with nothing more than pad changes (and those snap fit anyway).
I've not tried a Rohloff, and the Schlumpf seems elegant - I've had a play once on a recumbent.
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A number or issues have been raised here that relate to a project I am working on to make a modern low maintainance full suspension Cleland.
The first is that I consider my 1988 Highpath built Cleland as the benchmark for reliability. Over the last 21 years it has been regularly ridden in very muddy conditions and afterwards the mud is left to dry and then removed with a stiff brush and the running gear re-lubed. It gets its annual wash and bottom bracket grease (via grease nipple) in the Summer. Any adjustments are made and occaisionally worn out tyres and chain rings are replaced. The front hub brake shoes have been replaced once last year and the rear shoes are original. The bikes bearings are all original and only the bottom bracket has ever been re-greased.
It has effective mudguards, a chain guard over the chain and freewheel and between the chain and the rear tyre. Its fully enclosed hub brakes are uneffected by mud and knocks and water or mud has to defy the centrifugal forces within the rotating drums in order to get anywhere near the sealed wheel bearings.
Can a modern bike be this reliable?
I am currently involved in a project to build a modern day equivalent of the Cleland from current stock parts. We are using Shimano Roller-Brakes and Inter8 or Alphine hub gears (the silent clutch type so no clicking).
Rolhoffs are great but they don't make an enclosed hub brake version
We still have a lot of work to do in protecting the drive chain and suspension components. It's going to be difficult to make the new bike as low maintainance as the old Clelands with their built for purpose, custom made components.
The first is that I consider my 1988 Highpath built Cleland as the benchmark for reliability. Over the last 21 years it has been regularly ridden in very muddy conditions and afterwards the mud is left to dry and then removed with a stiff brush and the running gear re-lubed. It gets its annual wash and bottom bracket grease (via grease nipple) in the Summer. Any adjustments are made and occaisionally worn out tyres and chain rings are replaced. The front hub brake shoes have been replaced once last year and the rear shoes are original. The bikes bearings are all original and only the bottom bracket has ever been re-greased.
It has effective mudguards, a chain guard over the chain and freewheel and between the chain and the rear tyre. Its fully enclosed hub brakes are uneffected by mud and knocks and water or mud has to defy the centrifugal forces within the rotating drums in order to get anywhere near the sealed wheel bearings.
Can a modern bike be this reliable?
I am currently involved in a project to build a modern day equivalent of the Cleland from current stock parts. We are using Shimano Roller-Brakes and Inter8 or Alphine hub gears (the silent clutch type so no clicking).
Rolhoffs are great but they don't make an enclosed hub brake version
We still have a lot of work to do in protecting the drive chain and suspension components. It's going to be difficult to make the new bike as low maintainance as the old Clelands with their built for purpose, custom made components.
