Retro-modern fusion gravel build madness. The new Superb!

M_Chavez

Senior Retro Guru
You'd think that after two failed modern gravel builds I'll give up on the idea of a gravel bike and ride an old 26er, but no, I'm too dang stubborn, so I decided to continue my quest for finding the right long-distance compromise between tarmac and offroading.
Also, the number of gravel events seems to be increasing all over the country, and I'm quite keen to ride in some of them, so a dedicated gravel bike won't be gathering dust in the shed.

My personal gravel requirements are:
- No pizzacutters. I have liberated my bike shed from these horrible abominations. Thank you @Woz for words of wisdom.
- Reasonable offroading capabilities, so ability to fit at least 42mm tyres + guards.
- Drop bars for long-distance hand comfort
- Reasonable rolling resistance for long rides on tarmac.
- 9x1 drivetrain

Most 700c frames seem to fail in 42mm+guards department, and the ones that do allow this clearance are huge (Spa roughstuff anyone?). The choice was down to 26" or 650B, and 650B tyre offerings seem to be better than 26" these days.

@Mickeyspinn has planted the idea in my head of using an old french randonneuse frameset with 650B wheels. Probably as a bad joke, but he didn't know that I was in an emotionally unstable state after having to strip & sell the last 2 gravel bikes and would take his advice seriously.

An evening on ebay has yielded me a 1950s French Liberia randonneuse frameset with Durifort forks and unknown steel frame tubing.
It is my understanding that Durifort is a French brand for "tuyau de gaz extraordinaire" - the French Reynaults so to speak.
Even if it doesn't ride like five-three-one-see, I welcome the opportunity to try out the 650B gravel concept for a very little financial outlay.

The frame was purchased from a seller called street-of-vintage-bike-2 who turned out to be quite a friendly chap. He listed the paint condition as "very bad" but assured me that damage & rust were purely cosmetic, and the frameset looked structurally sound.
I was reluctant to believe him, as the pictures, that made the Liberia look like a badly rusted frame in merde brown colour scheme. Not that I don't trust French ebay sellers, but it's more that in France a "structurally sound" frameset means that at least one of the seat stays is still attached to the seat tube and the rest is firmly secured with gaffer tape and jubilee clips.
Shipping from Grenoble (the hometown of Liberia bikes) + UK import tax cost as much as the frameset itself, but I didn't care that much, as my head was spinning with dreams about the new idiot bike project.

A bit about the frame:
The weight for a 57cm frame+forks is only 3.2kg. Quite light by gaspipe standards I think. Fork is 800g - the same as my Reynolds 531 sloping crown Bob Jackson.
Seat tube angle appears to be 72.5 and headtube looks like 72.5-73.
BB is French threaded - not a big issue these days.
96mm front spacing;
116mm rear spacing (!) took me by surprise, as the frame is equipped with an old-school simplex hanger;
The fork race diameter is 27mm, and the fork threads are 24tpi, so standard ISO/Italian/JIS. WTF Francois?! I wonder is the frame builder was guillotined for treason for this grave mistake. I'll try a JIS cup to see if it fits well into the headtube, otherwise, I'll need to order in a 27.0 Italian headset.
There is one downtube shifter mount, but it's not the modern M5 x 0.8. Could this be M5 x 1.0?

A bit of searching on the French bike forum has produced a photo of how the original bike looked like - see green pic attached.
Some info on Liberia bikes:
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/France/bicycles/Liberia.htm
The intension is to build it up with modern components, so the only retro part of this bike will be the frameset.
Didn't know which forum to put this in, but since the frameset is a 1950s road one, this ended up in retro road bikes.

Hopefully, I won't destroy the frameset while working on it, and won't discover any hidden damage.
As they say in France, Bonnet de douche!
 

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Signing up to this. It's in the right section. This is a real project. Love retro-mods.

If this can come together it will be very inspirational for a lot of people here.
 
There's going to be a few challenges in this:

- As @Mickeyspinn stated, the rear spacing.
A 7 speed freehub will only take 8 out of 9 sprockets. Perhaps 9 out of 10 sprockets could work?
Cold setting to get up to 126mm will be fun, plus solving the fact there is no modern hanger....
May be worth investigating hub gears?

- It appears very early canti-lever thank god. Not sure, but you may need to run with Mafac of that period. This table could help.

1659621015158.png
 
There's going to be a few challenges in this:

- As @Mickeyspinn stated, the rear spacing.
A 7 speed freehub will only take 8 out of 9 sprockets. Perhaps 9 out of 10 sprockets could work?
Cold setting to get up to 126mm will be fun, plus solving the fact there is no modern hanger....
May be worth investigating hub gears?

- It appears very early canti-lever thank god. Not sure, but you may need to run with Mafac of that period. This table could help.

View attachment 649433
Re hub spacing...keeping it narrow means the original derailleur mount could come into play....to much widening of the stays and it could get tricky getting that mount to present square to axle!
I suggest 6 from 9 for the simple reason you end up with a much less wide block than a 7......means all cogs can be used in chains tolerance ...big big little little 👍
Going to be a fun build this...look forward to it ✌️
 
I really hope this project works out, as I 'll be laughing out loud while overtaking other gravellers with their plastic fantastic £5k gravel machines and go-faster rapha jackets. 🤣
And canti-brakes should be much better than [disk] cannae-brakes.
Not sure about the seat tube. 72.5 should just about work for me, but any steeper might not be a comfortable fit.

But, realistically, this will probably be a big waste of time & money...

The ebay seller seems to have a selection of randonneuses in different sizes, none of them are exactly high end. Searching for "cadre velo" with location set to Europe brings up a few interesting bikes.
Shipping was supposed to be fast, but just as the parcel has left Grenoble, the posties seem to have gone on strike due to hot & sunny weather :LOL:. So parcel got delayed by a few days.
Apart from weight, one of the selling points to me were the canti mounts. Looked modern in the photos. The threads are "normal" M6, or whatever is used in bosses these days. The boss diameter is 7.9mm - same as modern ones. Bosses are non-removable (not the modern threaded type).
Beware of old frames - some of them looked like they might have canti mounts, but on closer inspection were equipped with some prehistoric brake-mounting contraptions that would probably be completely incompatible with modern brakes.
Don't have cantis, but I've tried putting a set of v-brakes on the fork and they fitted OK-ish, albeit the pads were at the absolute bottom limit of their adjustment. I assume that the frame should accept modern cantis.

Plan of action:
- Cold set the rear to 130
- Cold set the fork to 100
- Put a hacksaw to pump mounts, dynamo mount and simplex mount (assuming I can't somehow use it to hang a modern mech). This should shave off another 60g of weight.
- Figure out how to hang a modern mech onto it (I've got the most period-inappropriate dura-ace mech with an oversized carbon fibre cage in the spares box 🤣). Don't have a torch, so need a clever bodge solution involving drilling, filing and perhaps some carbon fibre work.
- Figure out wtf is the deal with the headset. Can it possibly be JIS?
- Drill the frame and press in rivnut inserts for 2 bottle mounts. Should be OK on gaspipe, surely?
- Sort out the DT mount (just force an M5x0.8 tap into it?). The mount will only be used for one of them cable adjuster doodads.
- Pick a good set of cantis (assuming that modern ones fit, would you have any recommendations? No Paul, Tune etc - I'm broke). Last time I rode with cantis was, if memory serves me right, in 1998. Might need your advice setting them up.
- Practice some lug lining to highlight the nervex beauties.
- Decide against diy lug lining after making a pig's ear during practice.
- Ream out the seat tube to take a 26.2 seat. Currently measuring about 26.1, so I assume it takes a 26.0 post.
 
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PS I have considered an ig hub, but the dropouts are vertical - no way to tension the chain without a tensioner. Might as well hang a 9-speed mech there.
 
2,4 kilo frame, could be more than just gaspipe?
I know, right?

I believe some French builders used metric 531 in the main triangle & durifort for the rest, but the seat tube is definitely seamed.
Another possibility is butted Durifort - supposedly a popular tubeset prior to Vitus acquiring Durifort in the 60s(?). I've read that it was seamed and then rolled, & butted removing the traces of the seam. The seat tube does not appear butted to my eye if I shine the light into it, and there's a seam - not very noticeable, but it is there.
I can't see what's inside the main tubes - the bb shell is packed with grease.

My biggest fear was that the frame was about 3kg originally and half a kilo has rusted away. But no, the frame condition is pretty damn good for its age, apart from cosmetic pitting on the outside.

Original Durifort has been called a "poor man's Reynolds" in some cycling forum threads about French bikes.
images
 
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