Resource overload / fairplay in BOTM

[My_Teenage_Self]

I think one of the main things at play here is that people just have different ideas of what a competition like BOTM should be. Some feel that really the best bike should win, and some feel that whatever bike tugs at their heartstrings most should win.

100% agree.

And I'm mainly in the 2nd camp, but often, the winner will be the one that seems to really have meant something to the owner.

Nothing wrong with either IMHO.

 

[highlandsflyer]

Re:

On the whole, even the higher end bikes are not exactly super expensive. Sure, where they have historical significance things can get up there, but even competition winning or otherwise iconic bikes from the various eras can be acquired for relatively low sums.

When I think about the things my friends get up to with their spare time, I am hard pushed to find one pastime that is cheaper than messing around with old bikes.

I don't object to bikes that have had lots of dosh lavished on them.

My favourite bikes are usually ones that have a personal connection with the owner though, regardless of other aspects.

Can't see the attraction of low end bikes that I would have never wanted when they came out though.

Given the cheapness of early Marin frames, for example, I would go for the top end models, (if I was interested in restoring one of them). Yet I see many spending huge amounts of time rebuilding low end metal. Their choice, of course, but not my thing.

Meanwhile, my not insignificant passion for early Kleins has been almost completely eroded thanks to their current status as a fashion accessory.

 

[Ductape]

Re: Re:

On the whole, even the higher end bikes are not exactly super expensive. Sure, where they have historical significance things can get up there, but even competition winning or otherwise iconic bikes from the various eras can be acquired for relatively low sums.

When I think about the things my friends get up to with their spare time, I am hard pushed to find one pastime that is cheaper than messing around with old bikes.

I don't object to bikes that have had lots of dosh lavished on them.

My favourite bikes are usually ones that have a personal connection with the owner though, regardless of other aspects.

Can't see the attraction of low end bikes that I would have never wanted when they came out though.

Given the cheapness of early Marin frames, for example, I would go for the top end models, (if I was interested in restoring one of them). Yet I see many spending huge amounts of time rebuilding low end metal. Their choice, of course, but not my thing.

Meanwhile, my not insignificant passion for early Kleins has been almost completely eroded thanks to their current status as a fashion accessory.

Exactly. One of the reasons this is a great hobby to get into.

And the difference between buying a high end 20 year old Marin and a mid range one isn't that much.

Why not go for the best.

 

[walleater]

This all reminds me of why I never look at BOTM

With regards to businesses like TPC, I respect the fact that they make the bikes visible to the outside world, and if that means being entered in competitions, then great. Too many bikes end up in huge personal collections / hoards and never see the light of day, which to me is a bit......weird.

 

[Woz]

Just a thought. Would a PRO BOTQ (Q being a quarter) end the fairness debate?

PRO BOTQ with only entries from business, and of course with all the commercial razzmataz tit-for-tat,
bun-fights, lobbying and what not. Could be interesting watching only PROs battle it out for the podium positions.

 

[The History Man]

twio comps, concourse and loved and larraped

 

[rumpfy]

Interesting interpretation.

I guess on some levels you're right. I know I try to avoid to come across as a keyboard warrior, and I'd have to concur that primarily US based forums do tend to be far more aggressive places to be.

Its actually unfair to label that 'Brit bikers' are this way. I would say the majority of the users on this forum are this way.

Er, yes, and the majority are Brits. Kinda nailed my point there Bud, thanks!

Well, the US based forum (MTBR VRC) is its own kind of mess. And yes, generally more aggressive.

I know there are mostly Brits here, but I didn't want to make the generalization it was all Brits.
More of less behavioral trends from one forum to the next I suppose.


I try and make my bike observations constructive. You can call it criticizing I guess. Unless the bike is just awful, then I'm probably just being a jerk.

 

[rumpfy]

I agree. If I don't like a bike then it won't get my vote but I won't tell the owner that I think his bike is crap. What's the point in that? I don't see anything wrong with a little constructive criticism, especially if something is set up incorrectly but there's no need for rudeness.

By openly stating "I think this bike is one of the best around" (which is what entering BOTM does, whether you like it or not) you are opening yourself to that criticism, and you should take it.

Agreed. The criticism should help you improve as a collector/builder, not make you feelings hurt.

 

[FluffyChicken]

I agree. If I don't like a bike then it won't get my vote but I won't tell the owner that I think his bike is crap. What's the point in that? I don't see anything wrong with a little constructive criticism, especially if something is set up incorrectly but there's no need for rudeness.

By openly stating "I think this bike is one of the best around" (which is what entering BOTM does, whether you like it or not) you are opening yourself to that criticism, and you should take it.

Agreed. The criticism should help you improve as a collector/builder, not make you feelings hurt.

Also agreed here and I wish more would criticise the bikes and the little lack of attention to detail on a bike or other shite coordination of colour, overdoing things. Cable not cut to length/left too long. Ugly tyres.
Say what you see.

Tart the bugger up for a picture.
Still get out and ride it.

I ignore patina, I like a nice looking ridden bike setup properly as though the owner could be bothered.

Other don't but that's why we have the option to vote.
Pro/lucky rich people. They can join in, some build nice bikes, some don't.

 

[Neil]

The criticism should help you improve as a collector/builder, not make you feelings hurt.

Not that I want to intefere with people deciding to criticise, you understand. But...

Re: the bit in bold - that's never resonated with me, for anything. In my opinion, you should like what you like, and enjoy it for what it is - life is rather too short to be spending your time believing you need to educate, cultivate or condition your palate - for whatever that may be - art, media, food, drink.

Sure, some people will see that as a manifesto for mediocrity, but I don't buy it. People shouldn't have to suffer for their "art" or learn to improve it - if they do, it's lost some of it's zing - you know, that certain something about it, that defines it - it provokes an emotional response in you.

Now true enough, mechanically, some times certain things aren't optimum - but outside of that? Learning to appreciate something? That's just having your aesthetic diddled with by other peoples' fetish.