Raleigh SBDU frame disguised as a Brian Rourke

[robbiebee]

Raleigh SBDU frame disguised as a Brian Rourke

I have recently put this frame on eBay as a Brian Rourke when somebody came back to me saying that it was not a Brain Rourke frame on closer inspection I realise that the frame number is SB6993 and possible a Raleigh SBDU frame, a Raleigh "expert" has confirmed it is a SBDU frame. It is also a lot lighter than a 531 frameDoes anyone know what era it is and want colour it would have been originally. The guy I purchased off had bought it from someone in London. I have tried the yahoo group but my posting don't seem to upload.

Thank you in advance

 

[NeilM]

Re:

Quite a few frames appear for sale as Rourke's that are not. This is because it appears Rourke would rebadge many of the bikes they resprayed as Brian Rourke.

I'm sure there are exceptions, but for the mostpart Rourke frames have wrap around seat stays, it is a sort of signature thing these days.

Can't help on the Raleigh thing though, sorry.

 

[bedraggled]

I was watching the auction as it looked like a Raleigh except for the internal cable routing, I suspect that was done when it was repainted.
The serial number dates it to 1985.
Difficult to know what colour it would have been as the buyer could choose, at the time the Blue/White Panasonic was the most popular.

 

[robbiebee]

I was watching the auction as it looked like a Raleigh except for the internal cable routing, I suspect that was done when it was repainted.
The serial number dates it to 1985.
Difficult to know what colour it would have been as the buyer could choose, at the time the Blue/White Panasonic was the most popular.

Thanks it will be on eBay again later this month

 

[pigman]

Re:

I would say that that seat cluster setup was the Panasonic era, maybe banana if you wanted a Uk domestic look

edit -scrap that, there is one like this on the bike of the month vote with the old TI colours, so anyone's guess

 

[originalshinkicker]

Hi

That SB number is either late 84 or early 85 - Panasonic was probably the default colour although original black/red/yellow team colours were also still offered together with lots of solid colours of red/blue/white/yellow etc

SBDU did 4 main models, 753, 531 Pro Super, 531 Pro or 531c - 753 had a Cinelli BB shell, 531 Pro Super was either part chrome or full chrome - here is my 531 Pro Super...

http://raleigh-sb4059.com/2014/04/30/sb ... -complete/

Most 531 Pro Super frames that I have seen have had a braze on front mech fitting, I don't think yours has one but that could have been removed when the top tube was altered. If it doesn't have a Cinelli BB and it is very light like you say, it may be 531 Pro. Frame only weight for 531 Pro will be approx 1900 grams (531c will be over 2000 grams)

Cheers
Neil

 

[roadking]

Re:

Lugs help to date the frame, no later than mid 1980s - these lugs were used throughout the first half of the 80s. The shot-in stays appeared as early as 1983, and the white, blue, yellow livery was always referred to (by the SBDU) as team livery.

Team livery applies to both Raleigh-Weinmann (GB team) and Panasonic (Dutch team, as was Ti Raleigh that Panasonic replaced)

The comment about models is a little misleading, as is the comment about the Pro Super. My own Pro Super ordered in person at Ilkeston has neither a braze on for the FD, nor much chrome - it is one colour (a pearl) with chrome dropouts.

You could have any colour you liked, Gerald would try to sell you team livery - free marketing of course.

Rk.

 

[originalshinkicker]

Re: Re:

Lugs help to date the frame, no later than mid 1980s - these lugs were used throughout the first half of the 80s. The shot-in stays appeared as early as 1983, and the white, blue, yellow livery was always referred to (by the SBDU) as team livery.

Team livery applies to both Raleigh-Weinmann (GB team) and Panasonic (Dutch team, as was Ti Raleigh that Panasonic replaced)

The comment about models is a little misleading, as is the comment about the Pro Super. My own Pro Super ordered in person at Ilkeston has neither a braze on for the FD, nor much chrome - it is one colour (a pearl) with chrome dropouts.

You could have any colour you liked, Gerald would try to sell you team livery - free marketing of course.

Rk.

The comment about 531 Pro Super and other models is taken directly from the 1984 Ilkeston Catalogue and matches with most that I have seen, but as anyone who knows Ilkeston will know, they didn't do everything by the book or do things consistently. And yes, most Pro Super frames I have seen have a braze on front mech, that doesn't mean they all do but most I've seen have.

Ilkeston shot in stays were created in 1980 (ref Mike Mullet) and referenced in an Ilkeston timeline by Hilary Stone in 1982

 

[roadking]

Re: Re:

The comment about 531 Pro Super and other models is taken directly from the 1984 Ilkeston Catalogue and matches with most that I have seen, but as anyone who knows Ilkeston will know, they didn't do everything by the book or do things consistently. And yes, most Pro Super frames I have seen have a braze on front mech, that doesn't mean they all do but most I've seen have.

Ilkeston shot in stays were created in 1980 (ref Mike Mullet) and referenced in an Ilkeston timeline by Hilary Stone in 1982

Given that I visited Ilkeston on a number of occasions I am aware that they did not do everything by the book - Mike Mullet had left the SBDU by the time I visited (at the suggestion of the Raleigh Board). Shot in stays were actually appearing on other builders frames before 1980; my own Bill Philbrook built Ken Bird has this stay arrangement.

My comments are from personal experience, and the two SBDU catalogues I have, plus the research I recently undertook for a book on the SBDU.

Just trying to be helpful, and wishing to avoid a dick measuring exercise.

Rk.

N.B my frame was almost certainly one of the last built with the Pro tubeset; the concept tubeset 653 replaced Pro in 1986.

 

[lastpubrunner]

Re: Re:

Given that I visited Ilkeston on a number of occasions I am aware that they did not do everything by the book - Mike Mullet had left the SBDU by the time I visited (at the suggestion of the Raleigh Board)

.

I think that it would be a sensible course of action, if you refrain from making personal comments about others, in such a way that they might be viewed in an unfavourable way. Mike is a (highly respected) member of the TI Raleigh forum; many members of that forum also visit this one and might share your comments. To make derogatory comments on a public forum such as this, is to leave oneself open to litigation.

Oh yes, his surname is Mullett, not Mullet.

Just trying to be helpful. :facepalm: