Paris. Not Good News.

[ibbz]

Re: Re:

Dyna. Let's not forget 7/7. Over fifty dead and hundreds injured.

Ten years ago.

Prior to that we had terrorism too, and still have other groups intent on killing in the name of.

The difference with this sect is their willingness to die in their actions.

They are fighting for a cause, yes, but they are also guaranteed a place in eternal heaven by their action.

With that ideology, this is a whole new ball game.

Truly a battle of ideas. We need to scratch our heads till they bleed over this.

Bats, Ibbz. I doubt your knowledge or experience of Islamic ideas or customs is any more than mine. Carry on with the patronising approach though; it betrays a particularly binary view of the world.

As a follower of the Muslim religion, and a man approaching his mid 40ies with decades of reading, studying and traveling throughout the Muslim world I think my knowledge is greater than most who haven't been fated to be in my shoes. I also include contact with people who have more experience and knowledge than I, my dad and Grandad both were in the British Indian Army, my Grandad fought in Italy in The Great War.

I don't mean to be patronising and I apologise if I have been so.

 

[shogun]

So far all terrorist attacks have been committed by Muslims.

How on earth can we be on a forum where someone could probably tell you what brand of chainring bolt was en vogue 25 years ago or what brand of cable crimps Tinker Juarez ran at a NORBA round in 1991, but have people coming up with this kind of short memory nonsense? Selective amnesia? Deliberate myopia?

 

[ibbz]

"In 1990 I had never NEVER seen a Hijab or Beard or jack up trousers or Jesus robes on any person in London."

That strikes me as totally unbelievable. I attended Regent's Park mosque regularly back then, through work and also when my uncle's family were in town. All the above observed in abundance.

You'll always see headscarves in MOSQUES you can't enter one with out your head covered.

I meant in normal life in schools colleges high streets in suburbia not in Regent's Park mosque and not in parts such as belgravia and Knightsbridge where we have lots of Arab tourists

 

[Harryburgundy]

Re:

Very well said ibbz
I'm trying to watch Bitter Lake but the editing is appalling
Any other recommendations?

 

[ibbz]

Women generally did not enter the mosque back then, as you would know, and certainly not the same area as the men. They often sat outside in the park. Perhaps I was unclear. My point was Hijabs were worn all over London back then, as well as beards, short breeks and robes of all sorts. Your statements just don't add up.

You're quite wrong
Women were and are and always have been allowed to enter larger mosques and especially Regent's Park
And as I stated the Wahabi style beard and jackup was not to be seen in normal areas
And as for headscarves - don't confuse the South Asian traditional Dupatta with an islamicised Arabized hijab.

Islamic garb was always seen on Eid and Friday prayers and other prayer times in parts

I said I had never seen one, I was talking about myself and I've explained what I mean, normal teenagers and 20 somethings weren't dressing like that - devout people especially older men had beards and caps.

You may have been in circles and places I hadn't .

All I'm saying is that the gulf war had been partially responsible.

 

[ibbz]

Re: Re:

Very well said ibbz
I'm trying to watch Bitter Lake but the editing is appalling
Any other recommendations?

Mesrine

 

[ibbz]

Re:

The same goes for India and Pakistan where the influx of Afghan refugees, Saudi money pumped in during the soviet and mujahideen war and general Zia's 'reforms' radicalised much of the youth - this is where the Taliban are from - Talib means student.

Anyway ive been following events since then and have been arguing against Wahabization since I first noticed it here since 1990 and it's been futile.

As long as we keep giving the Saudis and qataris head things won't improve much.

 

[dyna-ti]

"a more tolerant society. "

We have this, everyone is welcome, be ye black,white ,orange(often seen in Glasgow ) or green.
Matters not if you worship the Jedi ,Islam, Hinduism, Catholic,Protestant or even Satan.


Wouldnt mind hearing the Hindu angle on all of this

 

[ibbz]

Women generally did not enter the mosque back then, as you would know, and certainly not the same area as the men.

You're quite wrong
Women were and are and always have been allowed to enter larger mosques and especially Regent's Park

At no point did I say women were not allowed. They pray in a different area. Also, women tended to pray at home. Fact.

The change in wearing religious clothing relates to a lot of groups, and I feel is perhaps more to do with living in, ironically, a more tolerant society.

When I first lived in London, the National Front were rampant, and people would be targeted for donning religious garb much more than now. I was attacked for having long hair.

You can think whatever you want but you're wrong.
But funny how you neglected to comment on the rest of my long post and instead concentrated on a minor sub issue of change in Muslim dress since 1990.

I can't be bothered replying or getting involved in this discussion anymore so I'm out.

 

[videojetman]

Re:

:roll: